Recurring Disease, pretty stumped.

[ace33]

So our dogface puffer has got a few spots on his fins and I'm at a loss tbh. There are 4 fish in the tank and have been for months. We took the few soft corals we had out at the end of December and dosed cupramine slowly to 0.5 and kept it there for around 2 months. Stuck the cuprisorb in and removed it and then added the coral back in last weekend. The sand bed was removed and replaced too. I'm guessing the next course of action is to do the same again just in case. Are there copper resistant strains? There are a small amount of tiny spots on his fins. Other 3 fish are unaffected (Niger trigger and pair of clowns).

I have used CP before in the past and had a bad experience and it's tricky to acquire in the UK.

 

[Qasimja]

can you post pictures

 

[AcroNem]

.5 probably wasn't enough, it likely dipped below therapeutic levels on a few occasions. it's also very difficult to eradicate parasites in system with fish and substrate as you don't get full exposure to the water column (and whatever drug/chemical you're treating with). But yes pictures will help

 

[ace33]

I was testing with salifert and seachem kits every couple of days to check, I was worried about overdosing too with the puffer. Happy to remove the sandbed if needs be.

 

[ace33]

Please excuse the cyano. Was just getting back on top of it after treatment.

 

[ace33]

Hopefully you can see, only on his fins and have to zoom. Difficult to capture.

 

[Big G]

Sometimes the parasites are dormant in the anaerobic areas of the tank (sand bed, equipment) encysted. That's why it's best to treat for parasites in a clean QT without sand, rock, etc.

I'd also get a Hanna HL Copper Checker. Those color matching test kits are horrible for measuring copper levels. You can be seriously over dosing or underdosing copper using those test kits. It will lower the stress on you and the fish

Copper treatment

Copper treatment What It Treats – Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum). There is some anecdotal evidence that copper will suppress symptoms of Brooklynella hostilis and Uronema marinum; however it is unlikely to completely eradicate either. How...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ace33]

I'll suck up the cost and order one I think.

I guess best course of action now is remove the sandbed and maybe half the rock and start again.

I can transfer the fish to QT but only have a 20H tank and then will have keep them out the big tank for 76 days.

 

[ace33]

Ordered the Hanna meter, guess I'll Syphon the sand out and take half the rock out this weekend and put them through copper again. Want to be sure the tank is parasite free before we look to add any more fish.

 

[Big G]

Rock is/could be part of the problem. All those nooks and crannies. And it absorbs copper and then leaches it back out. Kinda like the tide coming in a going out but in an unreliable fashion.

 

[ace33]

Rock is/could be part of the problem. All those nooks and crannies. And it absorbs copper and then leaches it back out. Kinda like the tide coming in a going out but in an unreliable fashion.

I worry about taking too much out and the tank crashing. System is pretty basic.

Do you think leaving a few bits in will be ok?

 

[Big G]

I worry about taking too much out and the tank crashing. System is pretty basic.

Do you think leaving a few bits in will be ok?

The problem is that Cupramine's therapeutic dose is small compared to chelated coppers like Copper Power or Coppersafe. So the amount you put into the tank is really, really small and then the therapeutic range is very narrow as well. So having anything in the tank that may absorb/leach the copper can cause problems. But you are aware of it so that's a good thing. Best of luck.

 

[ace33]

So the spots have increased and I have removed the sandbed and all LR apart from a couple of pieces.

Stock is 2x Clowns, a niger trigger and a dogface puffer.

I am using Cupramine and a Hanna tester. Copper is currently at 0.27

What is the minimum dose I could use? Should I dose the full 0.5 or will maintaining it above 0.4 be sufficient?

My main concern is for the puffer. He has shown no adverse reactions yet, I have raised it over 4 days so far.

 

[Big G]

Yes, watch the puffer carefully. IMO some of the bad press/opinion on Cupramine was from overdosing. Using the Hanna will allow you to "creep" up to therapeutic which starts at 0.35 - 0.50. So it's your call on how high to dose. We used to always shoot for 0.50 when using those color matching test kits. They were horrible for accuracy.

 

[ace33]

So the puffer is happy and I've kept the level between 0.45 and 0.49 testing at least once a day with the hanna. All the spots have gone and they haven't lost their appetites really at all which is helpful. I've given them some selcon soaked food a few times too. I plan to keep them this way for a month hopefully. Does this sound about right?

 

[ace33]

Tank is looking a bit bare but they seem happy enough. Managed to move some more sand to come out and another rock too. Didn't want to take too much too soon.

 

[sharpimage]

The rock is probably absorbing and releasing the copper/ cupramine at varying levels. It is typically recommended to remove the fish to a QT and treat the QT with copper. The DT stays fish less for 76 days. Also, the rock in there now will leach copper forever, and if there are corals will negatively affect them in the future.

 

[ace33]

We are happy to run this as a FO, I have removed most of the rock and the few soft corals we had left and don't plan to return them (puffer likes to eat them anyhow). I expect the rock to absorb a small amount of cupramine which is why I'm testing at least once a day. In reality there are 2 pieces of LR that are staying and no sand.