red sea reefers are not worth the cost

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flashsmith

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Are we talking new?
Im not talking about bare minimums, i mean a low iron glass rimless tank with a nice stand and sump can still be had for much less.
Are we talking new? I'm actually in the market for a nice frag setup but no matter how I go it's still going to be upwards of 2k. Anybody who's been in the hobby for more than a year probably has enough discarded equipment laying around minus a tank to cobble something together.Ive seen plenty of used and abused ones for cheap. Even at the low end of $500 for a decent used tank and maybe a skimmer thrown in. You still have to come up with quality lights heater and return pump at a minimum and those things I wouldn't take a chance on used. The stuff I have is in the junk bin for a reason. I went cheap when I started and regretted it.
 

Brucealmighty

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I have had a Cleair tank for 8 years I was tempted by the red sea but my lfs was having a sale on these tanks it's 178 gallons display and has a 29 gallon sump divided into three sections it's the Maz 1500 model and is 1500mm x 500mm x 900mm it came with 4 T5 lights in the hood (that I eventually replaced for leds's), after reading these issues I am happy to have my tank, I’ve had issues same as anyone, the return pipe leaked on day one and now I have recently upgraded to a fleece roller I have a salt seaping issue on the drain pipe I'm going to have to look at soon, apart from those slight hiccups I'm happy, one other issue is having a depth of 900mm (35 inches for the American readers :)) is its impossible to touch the bottom without using a step ladder, so I am quite envious of the ability of red sea reefers ability in most cases to get to the bottom of their tank easier than me but I have 2 Red Sea led 160s lights above it now and I love them bit weird to setup but still love them :-D
 

flashsmith

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I have bought from WWC in the past but havent recently. They are mega overpriced for sure. I usually only buy the auctions on ebay if I can get a good deal. And as far lights and pumps. Red Sea makes decent lights and pumps. Why not include it? All I've ever said is for the money you get very little, either include more or lower the price.
I live 30 mins from WWC and order everything from aquaSD. Yea they are a wee bit proud of their corals.
 

jamesdomini4

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Im not talking about bare minimums, i mean a low iron glass rimless tank with a nice stand and sump can still be had for much less.
I am planning a 4ft tank upgrade in a couple of years. So a genuine question.

Where can I get a low iron rimless tank, a modern looking stand and sump for Red Sea 425XL money?

SCA120 would end up costing more than the Red Sea (I am not even sure if SCA is made in the USA anymore, it says designed in California on the package, like the iPhone). The appear to have extra bracing on top. Are there any other brands that I should look into? I am not big until DIY. Tanks with plastic rims look ugly to me.
 
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Saltysav96

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SCA tanks are made overseas. i actually ordered a custom tank from them but then canceled the order once i found out it was "lost" at sea somewhere in a shipping container
I am planning a 4ft tank upgrade in a couple of years. So a genuine question.

Where can I get a low iron rimless tank, a modern looking stand and sump for Red Sea 425XL money?

SCA120 would end up costing more than the Red Sea (I am not even sure if SCA is made in the USA anymore, it says designed in California on the package, like the iPhone). The appear to have extra bracing on top. Are there any other brands that I should look into? I am not big until DIY. Tanks with plastic rims look ugly to me.
 

Dragonsreef

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I am planning a 4ft tank upgrade in a couple of years. So a genuine question.

Where can I get a low iron rimless tank, a modern looking stand and sump for Red Sea 425XL money?

SCA120 would end up costing more than the Red Sea (I am not even sure if SCA is made in the USA anymore, it says designed in California on the package, like the iPhone). The appear to have extra bracing on top. Are there any other brands that I should look into? I am not big until DIY. Tanks with plastic rims look ugly to me.
Glass cages, waterbox and a few others all have similar or lower pricing than red sea without worrying if your seams are gonna go.
 

tautog83

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Glass cages, waterbox and a few others all have similar or lower pricing than red sea without worrying if your seams are gonna go.
Until you have to pay for freight and a steel stand with custom, I have my quotes if you would like to see. If money wasnt an option then 1000% agree .
 

Pntbll687

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8. If you like your Red Sea tank that's fine, many do. I'm just trying to start a discussion about the true value of these tanks.
Just for the record I own ZERO redsea products. I'm not a fanboy of any kind. I own a aqueon 180 drilled for a peninsula, eshopps sump, aquatop return pump, kamoer doser. I buy where I see value, and I'm more than willing to DIY a couple things if need be.

I get what you're saying about perceived value and actual function.
 

Bato367

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As I said originally the functionality of the ATO is not the issue. Its how its positioned making it difficult to refill. This is an easy fix on red sea's part and they failed to do it.

And how is a system "All-in-one" if you have to buy multiple other items? By the very definition it isn't an all in one setup.

And I am not at all new to the hobby. Ive been keeping saltwater for about 8 years, fish overall for 15. This tank is NOT the ferrari of tanks. Its more of a Tesla. A tank with alright reliability(so actually better than a Tesla) but its unique design draws a loyal following. The quality of these tanks are no better than any other tank Ive owned.
I see a lot of people complain about refilling the ATO on the sump. Of course, trying to pour water into that would be unnecessarily difficult.

I use a small transfer pump in a bucket with a short vinyl hose. Easy.
 
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Bato367

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1. The point I was making as far as the AIO comment is that you are not getting very much for the money. It is far from an all in one kit.
Technically I don't see where Reefers are marketed as AIO's. They are marketed as:

"Red Sea REEFER™ Systems - Rimless reef ready systems for advanced hobbyists"

The MAX series are the "AIO's". They include pumps, skimmers, power panel, lights etc.
 

jamesdomini4

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Glass cages, waterbox and a few others all have similar or lower pricing than red sea without worrying if your seams are gonna go.
A similar build on glass cages with the wood stand is $4214 and without stand is $2112.
 

stephj03

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The value depends on what the hobby is for you.

For some, the hobby is everything downstream of the build (ie keeping livestock) with a premium aesthetic.

Many of those ppl gravitate towards brands who's logo they see at every LFS/Pet Store for obvious reasons. And to many of them, it's not fun to comparison shop water box vs red sea vs IM etc.

If the build is a large part of the hobby for you (including picking your own gear), then these tanks will look like a waste of money.

But for others, convenience of purchased with a clean aesthetic is a huge value.
 

Dan Stevens

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Mmmm. A lot of varied comments with valid points both positive and negative. I looked at RS and was going to buy the 900xxl. I actually bought the Cade1800 S2 and I gotta say it was the best choice for my needs. Super quiet, stylish, easy, nice ato. Reef tanks are like wives. Not everyone likes someone else's, some are noisier than others, some are expensive and some cheap, some leak, some wish they'd gone a different brand, some wish they had what their mates have. But one thing in common is they are all expensive to maintain and keep running and quiet but most of us love what we have.
 
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stephj03

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I personally have always done my own build mostly to try to contain cost.

But it's not the part of the hobby I enjoy. I'd love be to be price insensitive enough to just get an Elos and call it a day.
 

czoolander

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Glass cages, waterbox and a few others all have similar or lower pricing than red sea without worrying if your seams are gonna go.
Never thought that for a second with my tank that the seams are going to go . To each their own I guess.

As a previous poster stated earlier there are literally thousands of these tanks out there and people only remember the few posts of the seams giving out. Was their tank level ? damaged on delivery ? damaged during use? running their scraper in the corners hard?

To say you should worry about seams going out on a major tank manufacturer is just non sense IMO
 

Dragonsreef

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Never thought that for a second with my tank that the seams are going to go . To each their own I guess.

As a previous poster stated earlier there are literally thousands of these tanks out there and people only remember the few posts of the seams giving out. Was their tank level ? damaged on delivery ? damaged during use? running their scraper in the corners hard?

To say you should worry about seams going out on a major tank manufacturer is just non sense IMO
Red sea themselves admitted there was a problem with the tanks and are warrantying affected tanks, its not just a couple. They said they fixed the issue in the newer tanks but if i remember correctly it was something to do with how the stand was designed in one of the models. Theyre standing behind the product which i like to see but to say it shouldnt be worried about if you have one of the affected models is ignorant. Id definitely look into it if you have a red sea tank and if it was one of the affected models get it replaced before its an issue.
 

davidcalgary29

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The value depends on what the hobby is for you.

For some, the hobby is everything downstream of the build (ie keeping livestock) with a premium aesthetic.

Many of those ppl gravitate towards brands who's logo they see at every LFS/Pet Store for obvious reasons. And to many of them, it's not fun to comparison shop water box vs red sea vs IM etc.

If the build is a large part of the hobby for you (including picking your own gear), then these tanks will look like a waste of money.

But for others, convenience of purchased with a clean aesthetic is a huge value.
All of this is true, but a big draw of popular tanks for some people ...is their popularity.

Because many people have these tanks, a lot of third-party manufacturers have designed their products around them. That means that you probably won't have to make do with strange kludges or awkward workarounds as you try to fit a piece of equipment into a custom-built sump. And it's often cheaper, too: you can get ClearView "EZ Build" lids for Red Sea tanks for a substantial discount. That option's not offered for other aquariums. And inTank has media baskets for specific Red Sea models (and other models from other popular aquarium makers), etc.

And because many people have these tanks, there's a huge pool of people who've probably experienced the exact same thing with which your struggling at the moment, and who can offer creative fixes for it. You're not going to get that pool of help with a custom build.

This is the reason I bought my Evo 13.5s -- I took a look at all of the build threads, saw all of the creative mods, and thought "if something goes wrong, at least I'll have lots of people to ask!". It was just a bonus that it turned out to be a really good nano AIO.
 
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