red sea reefers are not worth the cost

[davidcalgary29]

I should also add that I do not run any type of heater on my RSM250. It's definitely a hidden bonus for those reefers who don't want to run one.

 

[JNalley]

I should also add that I do not run any type of heater on my RSM250. It's definitely a hidden bonus for those reefers who don't want to run one.

wait, what? Do you keep your house at 76F or something?

 

[davidcalgary29]

wait, what? Do you keep your house at 76F or something?

Nope. It's -29C outside right now, and we're keeping the house a little cool at the moment -- right around 21C or 70/71F. The RSM is a closed canopy system, so it retains heat and cooling by evaporation is non-existent, since I have the water-cooling fans turned off. All of the equipment -- two return pumps and the skimmer -- all produce a LOT of waste heat. If I turn off return #2, I can get the tank down to 25C/77F. I can reduce it below that if I turn off the skimmer, but I'm not going to do that.

 

[JNalley]

Nope. It's -29C outside right now, and we're keeping the house a little cool at the moment -- right around 21C or 70/71F. The RSM is a closed canopy system, so it retains heat and cooling by evaporation is non-existent, since I have the water-cooling fans turned off. All of the equipment -- two return pumps and the skimmer -- all produce a LOT of waste heat. If I turn off return #2, I can get the tank down to 25C/77F. I can reduce it below that if I turn off the skimmer, but I'm not going to do that.

Ahh, I wasn't aware they had a built-in lid. That makes sense then, my Fluval Flex with stock light and hood stayed like 9 degrees F above ambient :-D

 

[DopamineKata]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

 

[JNalley]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

haha, I was considering doing that... but it's a custom tank, with armored seams, handcrafted in the US, and the owner touches every tank that comes out of their shop... While I still think it's overpriced... some people still pay for wooden cars (Morgan) and they're willing to pay WAY more money for them than the sum of their parts because of the same reasons...

 

[Acros]

Did you look at the SCA PNP systems? These are total systems (Tank, Sump, Stand, Pump, Skimmer):

I did, but the PNP components seem to be of bad quality. The tank is definitely worth consideration.

I am not looking for an upgrade, not for a few years. It’s fun to price out stuff. So far my planned RSR 425XL build has crossed $7500 for setup.

 

[Acros]

Have any of you priced out Glass Cages?

I did. You can also price them on their website. This was for a 4ft tank.
Post in thread 'red sea reefers are not worth the cost'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/red-sea-reefers-are-not-worth-the-cost.885026/post-9782868

 

[ninjamyst]

Actually thats probably a different discussion . I think Redsea is similar. For example - I used - flexible tubing to 'plumb' - my return pump to my redsea - it was extremely simple - I have to say - I didn't look into all of the plumbing - it looked similar to Redsea

As another pointed out, Fiji tank is very different. Red sea you literally just twist the pipes in and that's it. With Fiji, you have to cut and glue the PVC pipes yourself. It's much more involved and not plug and play. Hence why Fiji tanks are not popular even though they are cheaper. Red Sea provides everything. Look at their product launches the past 2 years. They are going into equipments now. You can literally have a Red Sea tank with all Red Sea equipment...skimmer, dosing pump, wave maker, lights. I won't be surprised if they release a return pump soon. Small players like Fiji Cube will never be able to catch up. Red Sea will continue to dominate the industry.

 

[MnFish1]

Red sea themselves admitted there was a problem with the tanks and are warrantying affected tanks, its not just a couple. They said they fixed the issue in the newer tanks but if i remember correctly it was something to do with how the stand was designed in one of the models. Theyre standing behind the product which i like to see but to say it shouldnt be worried about if you have one of the affected models is ignorant. Id definitely look into it if you have a red sea tank and if it was one of the affected models get it replaced before its an issue.

Redsea offered a retrofit kit that fixed the problem

 

[Forty-Two]

Quality does make a pretty big difference in this hobby I’m finding

 

[WVNed]

Quality does make a pretty big difference in this hobby I’m finding

and I find nothing to be of higher quality than something I have built/made myself. Plus I enjoy doing it.

 

[LiamPM]

As far as RS failures. They have the largest market share by a large margin. So yea your gonna hear things.

Proportionate to the amount more red sea sells, they have the market share.

Red Sea having 20 issues with 10,000 tanks sold is no better or worse than another manufacturer having 2 issues out of 1,000 tanks sold and it's possible that Red Sea has at this point more than 10 times the number of tanks out there as compared any other single manufacturer.

Id be curious to see whatever document or link you have that highlights Red Sea selling much more tanks than other brands if possible?

Kind of assuming its more a guess based on the forum and groups but if there is something that shows this id love to read it.

 

[flashsmith]

Id be curious to see whatever document or link you have that highlights Red Sea selling much more tanks than other brands if possible?

Kind of assuming its more a guess based on the forum and groups but if there is something that shows this id love to read it.

Ok.. I'll play along. Both IM and Waterbox are fairly new to the game. They seem to be the most mentioned in the same sentence with RS. Cade, well they seem to have only 1 dealer in the entire U.S. JBJ,Pro Star, Fiji are all in the 2nd tier as far as popularity. Me personally I've owned 4 IM tanks. Just bought an IM25 for a frag setup. Cost is negligible to me personally but value is important. Of the three 2nd tier brands I believe only the pro star may come with a sump. All the rest not sure. I only own 1 RS tank. A 625 that I purchased 6 months ago. I own a business and crunch numbers on everything. Waterbox was out the first time I put eyes on them. Value yes quality not by my eyes. All the 2nd tiers? I can honestly say I've never set eyes on any of them. I was all in on Cade regardless of cost. But at the end of the day only 1 source scared me away. I was hesitant on the 625 with so many stories out there. How many of those were actually the fault of RS and how many of those were from improper setup and poor maintenance? One thing I've learned as a service type business owner is that nobody wants to hear the hard truth. They would rather be lied to as long as it feels right. My decision came down to simplicity of setup and the availability of products needed for the tank and their customer service. When there was an issue they always handled it no questions asked. Just by the volume of equipment RS offers on top of the tanks should tell you all you need to know about their market share. When we have clients complain 99 out of 100 times it's related to customer neglect. That's not a poll that's me doing the work. If they weren't selling tanks they wouldn't have their own lighting line. Their supplements are by far the most widely used in the hobby. Are they the best? Who knows but again they are widely available and used by many. So yea they have the market share.

 

[LiamPM]

Ok.. I'll play along. Both IM and Waterbox are fairly new to the game. They seem to be the most mentioned in the same sentence with RS. Cade, well they seem to have only 1 dealer in the entire U.S. JBJ,Pro Star, Fiji are all in the 2nd tier as far as popularity. Me personally I've owned 4 IM tanks. Just bought an IM25 for a frag setup. Cost is negligible to me personally but value is important. Of the three 2nd tier brands I believe only the pro star may come with a sump. All the rest not sure. I only own 1 RS tank. A 625 that I purchased 6 months ago. I own a business and crunch numbers on everything. Waterbox was out the first time I put eyes on them. Value yes quality not by my eyes. All the 2nd tiers? I can honestly say I've never set eyes on any of them. I was all in on Cade regardless of cost. But at the end of the day only 1 source scared me away. I was hesitant on the 625 with so many stories out there. How many of those were actually the fault of RS and how many of those were from improper setup and poor maintenance? One thing I've learned as a service type business owner is that nobody wants to hear the hard truth. They would rather be lied to as long as it feels right. My decision came down to simplicity of setup and the availability of products needed for the tank and their customer service. When there was an issue they always handled it no questions asked. Just by the volume of equipment RS offers on top of the tanks should tell you all you need to know about their market share. When we have clients complain 99 out of 100 times it's related to customer neglect. That's not a poll that's me doing the work. If they weren't selling tanks they wouldn't have their own lighting line. Their supplements are by far the most widely used in the hobby. Are they the best? Who knows but again they are widely available and used by many. So yea they have the market share.

Can i play too..........What game we playing? Proper odd response that.

I too imagine they do have the largest market share in the US.................I was simply asking if you had data showing that as you said they did like it was a 100% fact.

Now im super confused though - Why do you think selling equipment means they must have the most tanks sold? Can they not sell lighting, pumps and supplements without selling tanks? Ive used their products on many tanks that wernt their brand - Was that wrong to do

"If they weren't selling tanks they wouldn't have their own lighting line" - Does that work the other way? Someone please tell Ecotech theyve been working backwards for years - I now want an EcoTank

 

[A Young Reefer]

Id be curious to see whatever document or link you have that highlights Red Sea selling much more tanks than other brands if possible?

Kind of assuming its more a guess based on the forum and groups but if there is something that shows this id love to read it.

smallest example on a personal scale; my lfs had Red Sea tanks of almost all models out of stock for a whole year. reason is not because they were not receiving shipments but there were way too many orders and I had to wait until my turn came to finally get mine. While on the other hand water box tanks were in stock the whole time and a significantly smaller amount of people were purchasing them. I could’ve went with the water box and saved the wait time, but the Red Sea dimensions fitted my living space the best.

 

[OscarHaglund]

Glass cages, waterbox and a few others all have similar or lower pricing than red sea without worrying if your seams are gonna go.

Where I live the Waterbox is 25% more expensive than the red sea alternative for my preferred tank size (rs 300xl/ wb 100)

 

[DopamineKata]

and I find nothing to be of higher quality than something I have built/made myself. Plus I enjoy doing it.

If you're making an aquarium using the same quality of glass as Red Sea I can guarantee you paid more for it than a Red Sea would cost you unless you're buying glass in the same volumes they are.

 

[mmorriso]

Id be curious to see whatever document or link you have that highlights Red Sea selling much more tanks than other brands if possible?

Kind of assuming its more a guess based on the forum and groups but if there is something that shows this id love to read it.

In my country (Not the US) even though there are many retailers, there are only a handful of distributors.

Just before COVID, I was at a reef show (Something like Reefapalooza) and a distributor rep was having difficulty setting up their AV system. It was something I could help with, so I offered my assistance. We were chatting, and I asked how many Waterbox tanks they sold, as I'd just bought a Waterbox cube. He stated directly that they sold at least 10 times as many Red Sea tanks as they did all others combined. This wouldn't account for CADE, as they distribute directly in my country, or "no-name" tanks that are imported directly from China and sold direct to the public.

To my knowledge, no company publishes this information. I suppose BRS could be asked?

Anecdotally, almost every shop in my city will have a few Red Sea tanks on display. Also, from my own direct experience and those other reefers I'm acquainted with, Red Sea replacement parts can be supplied in days, while at least Waterbox can take weeks.

 

[pbrown]

I really like my Red Sea system. ATO could be larger but my only wish.