Red Sea Trace Colors dosing

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GoVols

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Thanks! I haven't even looked at the bottle yet. Just deferred to the instructions on the website. Which are more complicated than they need to be for a dum-dum like myself.

Although that brings up another interesting conundrum... My tank is not consuming Ca for some reason. Which means I'm also not dosing Strontium and Barium as a result. Hmmm... Maybe I just keep dosing Ca anyway and let the whole thing hopefully balance itself out :) Mg is around 1350 and my nutrients are at appropriate levels for an SPS tank (0.06 and 8). Head scratcher. Don't want to derail this thread though.
Forget the derail… :D

If your calcium levels are spot on then I would not dose it up.

If your reef is not in taking cal and alk, then you would not want to dose trace elements.

Was your reef intaking calcium and alk?
 

DeputyDog95

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Forget the derail… :D

If your calcium levels are spot on then I would not dose it up.

If your reef is not in taking cal and alk, then you would not want to dose trace elements.

Was your reef intaking calcium and alk?
It was using Ca, then it wasn't. Then it was using Ca, then it wasn't.

So weird...

I started with Red Sea (RS) initially as that's what I've used in the past. The tank is about 14 months old, mostly SPS frags and 7 or 8 torch heads. A few months after I added the SPS frags, it got funky.

I actually switched A/B solutions thinking it was a RS issue, but it ended up exhibiting the same behavior except the Alk supplement spiked my K due to it being K based instead of sodium based like most. I was also using that company's individual trace element line and repeated ICPs, but that felt like the tank was turning into a part time job keeping up. Hence moving over to RS's trace element program.

So I put my RS A/B back online a couple days ago and I'm still adjusting the dosage to get my Alk back to 8.5 using the Red Sea liquid. The other liquid I was using was requiring 35ml per day and I'm up to about 22ml with the RS right now but it's only at 8.2. So I'm waiting to see where it will land with the Red Sea now to keep me stable at about 8.5 dkh. Of course as soon as I put the Ca back online, I'm sure that will suppress the Alk a bit and I'll have to adjust up a bit to get it to finally balance. Assuming the tank starts eating Ca again :)
 

Smoke-Town

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I'll be starting to dose this stuff next week after I send a new icp test out. And i love the idea of just dosing based on ca consumption for equal dosing of these minor and trace elements... but how can this apply to different types of reef tanks?

Wouldn't the potassium and iron get used more with acros, Monti, and anemones,

While iodine and manganese be used more for euphylia and flower pots?

So if a tank is dominant in one of those directions or the other, wouldn't consumption of the elements be at different rates and therefore risk overdosing the lesser used elements over a long period of time?

I'm sure quarterly or biannual icp tests would catch these trends well before they could become a toxicity issue, but I imagine iron for example could build up to dangerous levels more quickly if consumption is low.
 

DeputyDog95

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My tank did eventually balance out, more or less. I keep tinkering with lighting etc, so I need to just leave it alone and let the tank do it's thing.

I still dose K, Fe, and Bio trace elements or whatever it's called from the Red Sea line. However, I stopped with their Iodine. I was following the trace elements instructions and dosing all 4 according to Ca consumption, but my Iodine went through the roof. It's been a couple of months since I stopped with the Iodine, but I kept on with the other 3.

I had another ICP test yesterday and the Iodine was just fine without dosing it and doing two or three water changes per month (around 15%). The K and Fe were also good with the K being a touch low, but nothing I would worry about it. I was however deficient with the following. I do run a fuge with a small ball of chaeto, so that may be responsible for sucking up some of this stuff. I'm consistently low with the following. I am going to put all this stuff on a doser this week, so I might be able to play w dosing amounts in very small increments to see if I can correct the deficiencies. Right now I'm "hand dosing" 3x a week to save time (splitting the 7 days into 3), and it's hard to be precise that way. I mean you can, it's just a lot of work. At least on a doser I can drip traces every day and make small adjustments up and down individually to suit my ICP results.

Borondeficient3.853 mg/L4 - 5trace element additive
Potassiumdeficient369.5 mg/L380 - 480poor coloration, nutrient control problemsmacro element additives
Manganesedeficientnot detected0.0001 - 0.002reduced polyp extension, poor growthtrace element additives
Nickeldeficientnot detected0.003 - 0.008poor growth and reduced colorationtrace element additives
Sulfurdeficient796.1 mg/L850 - 960RTN, STNwater change
Silicondeficientnot detected0.1 - 0.2poor sponge or clam growthtrace element additives
Vanadiumdeficient0.001 mg/L0.002 - 0.008poor coloration, growth and nutrient uptaketrace element additives
Zincdeficient0.001 mg/L0.002 - 0.006poor growth and coloration, accumulation nutrientstrace element additives
 

redseasteve

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Hello,

I’m having a brain fart due to lack of sleep. I had a few questions about dosing the Trace Colors. So we’re supposed to dose 1 mL for every 20 ppm of Calcium added to 100/L or 26.4/G of aquarium water.

I’m not sure I know how many ppm of Calcium I’m adding. I know what my Calcium level is @ 440ppm & I’m dosing 24mL daily on my new system that’s about 8 months old.

So given that information how will I determine how many mL’s of my Calcium dose is equal to 20 ppm of Calcium added for my water volume of about 75/G’s.

So would this calculation be right:
93.7mL of ESV = 20ppm
153.5mL of BRS = 20ppm

Easiest and safest way is to dose in conjunction with Red Sea Calcium+ (Foundation-A) this contains not only calcium but strontium and barium, all in a balanced and concentrated formulation. Dosing the colors is really easy. For every 10ml of Red Sea Calcium, add 1ml of each of the colors.
 
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Easiest and safest way is to dose in conjunction with Red Sea Calcium+ (Foundation-A) this contains not only calcium but strontium and barium, all in a balanced and concentrated formulation. Dosing the colors is really easy. For every 10ml of Red Sea Calcium, add 1ml of each of the colors.

This was back in 2019. :)

I’m on a far better program now.

BTW…they may tell you it’s balanced…but what happens when your demand increases or decreases for one of those individual elements? You are then at the mercy of the Ratio that Red Sea is putting into that bottle. If you want to increase or decrease one of those elements your are out of luck. There is no way to do it because you’re adding the elements in their ratio.

If you want more individual control. PM me.
 

DeputyDog95

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This was back in 2019. :)

I’m on a far better program now.

BTW…they may tell you it’s balanced…but what happens when your demand increases or decreases for one of those individual elements? You are then at the mercy of the Ratio that Red Sea is putting into that bottle. If you want to increase or decrease one of those elements your are out of luck. There is no way to do it because you’re adding the elements in their ratio.

If you want more individual control. PM me.


The Red Sea suggested dosing is only a general guideline, you are not obligated to stick with it and can add/subtract where necessary. That is not my opinion, it's in the instructions. The trace dosing based on Ca consumption is just a "starter" prescription.

For example... My iodine skyrocketed when I followed their program. So I stopped dosing their Iodine altogether and subsequent tests (ICP) show my Iodine is just fine with regular water changes. Randy on here also seems to feel dosing Iodine is not necessary for those doing regular water changes. He is right, at least as far as I've experienced.

My Iron and Potassium are in range (ICP), with the Potassium being a tick low for my preference at around 379. My plan is to increase the dosing slightly and see where it lands, targeting 400.

I think their trace program is fine, so long as you are testing periodically and adjusting when necessary. But there is no hard and fast rule that you have to follow the 1/10th of Red Sea Ca dosing. A good rule of thumb is don't dose any elements in your tank that you don't test for periodically.
 
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The trace dosing based on Ca consumption is just a "starter" prescription.
The Red Sea Trace Color program has already been prescribed. You cannot modify their ratio. It’s not a “starter” prescription. It is the prescription.

For example... My iodine skyrocketed when I followed their program.
Exactly….and here’s the problem. If Iodine consumption is low, the only way you can prevent the Iodine from elevating is to stop dosing bottle A.

I think their trace program is fine, so long as you are testing periodically and adjusting when necessary.
How can you adjust the ratio they’ve predetermined for the bottle? I’ll answer the question for you. You can’t. If you want to increase one of those elements individually, you’ll need to add “a different product.” If you want to decrease one of those elements- there’s no way to do it. This is what happens when you start putting elements into one solution. You loose the ability to tweak the amount of each element that goes into the system. :)
 

DeputyDog95

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The Red Sea Trace Color program has already been prescribed. You cannot modify their ratio. It’s not a “starter” prescription. It is the prescription.


Exactly….and here’s the problem. If Iodine consumption is low, the only way you can prevent the Iodine from elevating is to stop dosing bottle A.


How can you adjust the ratio they’ve predetermined for the bottle? I’ll answer the question for you. You can’t. If you want to increase one of those elements individually, you’ll need to add “a different product.” If you want to decrease one of those elements- there’s no way to do it. This is what happens when you start putting elements into one solution. You loose the ability to tweak the amount of each element that goes into the system. :)


I'm not sure you're correct. Although, maybe I'm not interpreting this right... However, I don't think these trace elements have the same relationship as say Alk, Ca, and Mg. Then again, I'm far from a chemist. Sure seems like you can test each trace and adjust as necessary for your particular tank's demands based on their literature.

Pages 5, 8 and 9.

https://www.redseafish.com/wp-conte...ors-Supplements_GB-DE-FR-NL-SP-_2019A-44p.pdf

Thoughts?
 
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I'm not sure you're correct. Although, maybe I'm not interpreting this right... However, I don't think these trace elements have the same relationship as say Alk, Ca, and Mg. Then again, I'm far from a chemist. Sure seems like you can test each trace and adjust as necessary for your particular tank's demands based on their literature.

Pages 5, 8 and 9.

https://www.redseafish.com/wp-conte...ors-Supplements_GB-DE-FR-NL-SP-_2019A-44p.pdf

Thoughts?

We’re talking about the Trace color program which is ABCD (4 bottles) that all have various elements.

“Provides the 31 minor and trace elements required by corals in 4 - 100 mL bottles.”

The ratio in the bottle is determined by Red Sea. There is no way to change that ratio. If one element is starting to elevate you can decrease the dose, but it will decrease everything else in the bottle. The same will happen if one element is becoming depleted. You can increase the dose, but you’ll increase everything else in the bottle. There is no individual control, and unfortunately that is the problem with most of these programs. Ask me how I know! Wink Wink. Once you start putting several elements in one bottle (or a few bottles), you loose the ability to tweak as needed.

These companies avoid telling you that. They market the product like it’s the best thing on earth. This does not work for advanced reefers.

Not to worry though, there’s better ways to run a reef. :)
 

DeputyDog95

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We’re talking about the Trace color program which is ABCD (4 bottles) that all have various elements.

“Provides the 31 minor and trace elements required by corals in 4 - 100 mL bottles.”

The ratio in the bottle is determined by Red Sea. There is no way to change that ratio. If one element is starting to elevate you can decrease the dose, but it will decrease everything else in the bottle. The same will happen if one element is becoming depleted. You can increase the dose, but you’ll increase everything else in the bottle. There is no individual control, and unfortunately that is the problem with most of these programs. Ask me how I know! Wink Wink. Once you start putting several elements in one bottle (or a few bottles), you loose the ability to tweak as needed.

These companies avoid telling you that. They market the product like it’s the best thing on earth. This does not work for advanced reefers.

Not to worry though, there’s better ways to run a reef. :)


Now I see what you're saying. I thought you meant you can't adjust A, B, C, D individually. Because you definitely can. But agreed, as far as "sub elements" included in the primary element on the bottle, you're stuck with what the ratios they give you.

That being said, these sub elements are typically not going to be overdosed and typically are underdosed resulting in deficiencies, at least in my experience using ICP with the product's main focus on Fe, I, and K. I guess that could vary from tank to tank and elevated levels would be problematic if you fall into that category.

I've stopped dosing Iodine, because my levels were overly inflated when doing so, and are just fine with regular water changes.

I am still dosing K, Fe, and the Bioactive traces or whatever it's called (I think that is B, C, and D). With regards to the deficiencies in some of the very minor traces, I'm going to stop concerning myself with that. They're being introduced through dosing as well as water changes, and are clearly being used by the occupants of the tank. If I'm putting them in and they're either low or not detected, they must be being metabolized by something.

I know there are other systems such as reef moonshiners or reef blueprint where you do regular ICP testing and dose individual elements accordingly. I tried the reef blueprint method for a while and found it to be too much work adding 5 drops of this and 2 drops of that on a daily basis for 12-15 elements. I'm just too lazy and have had great tanks where I did nothing other than water changes and regular Ca and Alk dosing.

So for now, I'll keep doing the red sea B, C, and D and see where that leads me. My ICP's look "ok" these days, well except for elevated aluminum which was taking place before I was using the A,B, C, D and I'm convinced it's the marine pure blocks so I've pulled half out and will pull the other half a couple of weeks from now.

How are you managing your tank? Just curious, you seem pretty knowledgable and I'm always looking for more great ideas.
 
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That being said, these sub elements are typically not going to be overdosed and typically are underdosed resulting in deficiencies, at least in my experience using ICP
Sometimes they do fall to depleted levels but not always. We’ve had several guys overdosing different elements. Some refuse to transition to a 2-part w/o traces despite warnings. They continue their current program on top of ours. I think they have this thought in the back of their mind that it will make it that much better. The truth is that all the elements have a target range that is easily met with our program. The entire Chemistry is taken care of. Running another program out top of it will usually just lead to problems unless the ratios are very low in the bottle. Even then if the bioload in the tank is too minimal it will almost always cause issues down the road. Typically, about 4-6 months later you will hear the same guys asking the group for help about what 2-part to switch to, because they have one or more elements they can’t control. Sometimes more.


My ICP's look "ok" these days, well except for elevated aluminum
Don’t worry too much about the Aluminum. It’s not a critical element. I’ve seen it extremely high with no issues.

How are you managing your tank?
Shine
 

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