Red spot on Pyramid, treat now or wait?

foxt · Sep 15, 2017

I've been stocking up a 220g tank from purchases made mostly online, and have had good luck up until the last couple of fish. Just got this pyramid in from DD, and it has two things that I am looking for feedback on: an orange coloration around it's anal fins, and a red spot that doesn't look good.

I'm guessing/hoping that the anal fin coloration is normal for a mature specimen (I haven't seen one old enough to know for sure), but since it has that other red spot, I'm paranoid. Any help would be appreciated. The fish just went in to a QT, so if I have time to act, I might want to wait a little while before treating it. It did start eating almost right away though, so that was encouraging.

Humblefish · Sep 15, 2017

Whenever you see a red spot on a butterfly, don't hesitate to start with antibiotics.

foxt · Sep 15, 2017

Alrighty then, furan-2, kanaplex, metro cocktail?

This fish came in today as part of an advertised "bonded pair", so I put them both in the same QT. Since the other one has been theoretically exposed to whatever this is before it got to me, shall I leave it in the same QT at this point? Not sure what the balance is between the exposure to the meds vs. the odds that it could have the same issue later on?

Also, you had suggested a methylene blue bath in the thread about my other case (like I said, having bad luck with the last couple of arrivals). Shall I go ahead and give this one an MB bath too?

Thanks!

Humblefish · Sep 15, 2017

foxt said:
Alrighty then, furan-2, kanaplex, metro cocktail?

Yes

foxt said:
This fish came in today as part of an advertised "bonded pair", so I put them both in the same QT. Since the other one has been theoretically exposed to whatever this is before it got to me, shall I leave it in the same QT at this point? Not sure what the balance is between the exposure to the meds vs. the odds that it could have the same issue later on?

Yes, I would QT and treat them together. Since bacterial infections are sometimes waterborne transmissible.

foxt said:
Also, you had suggested a methylene blue bath in the thread about my other case (like I said, having bad luck with the last couple of arrivals). Shall I go ahead and give this one an MB bath too?

Yes; an acriflavine bath might also prove useful.

foxt · Sep 15, 2017

Humblefish said:
Yes; an acriflavine bath might also prove useful.

Both MB and acriflavine? At what frequency? Can I alternate - MB bath today, acriflavine tomorrow, etc?

Humblefish · Sep 15, 2017

foxt said:
MB bath today, acriflavine tomorrow

^^ Do this

ngoodermuth · Sep 15, 2017

foxt said:
Both MB and acriflavine? At what frequency? Can I alternate - MB bath today, acriflavine tomorrow, etc?

For bacterial infections, I personally have had better success with acriflavine than MB. If I had to choose one or the other, that's what I would go with.

Humblefish · Sep 15, 2017

ngoodermuth said:
For bacterial infections, I personally have had better success with acriflavine than MB. If I had to choose one or the other, that's what I would go with.

^^ This is true. The MB would only be better if this was due to a wound. Acriflavine is better for infections; so you might wanna do that today, MB tomorrow.

foxt · Sep 15, 2017

Ok, acriflavine today (ruby reef rally), and MB tomorrow. Repeat the cycle again after that, or wait and see? This guy just got here, so I am hoping I don't stress him out with all of this activity to the point where he doesn't eat - he's eating now, fingers crossed that keeps up after the bath.

Humblefish · Sep 15, 2017

foxt said:
Ok, acriflavine today (ruby reef rally), and MB tomorrow. Repeat the cycle again after that, or wait and see? This guy just got here, so I am hoping I don't stress him out with all of this activity to the point where he doesn't eat - he's eating now, fingers crossed that keeps up after the bath.

I would plan on doing just one Rally bath, and then one MB bath for now. But start dosing antibiotics immediately.

foxt · Sep 15, 2017

Thanks to both of you!

Treatment has started:
Acriflavine (Reef Rally) bath, 1tsp in 1gal tank water, 90 mins
First dose of furan-2/kanaplex/metro (to be dosed per instructions for 10 days)
I'll give the fish a methylene blue bath tomorrow, and then just continue antibiotics from there

I'll post an update if anything changes

foxt · Sep 16, 2017

Today, the fish with the red spot is acting lethargic, and is starting to get one cloudy eye. The top half of the eye is starting to appear a little cloudy, but it was crystal clear yesterday. This fish was eating frozen yesterday about 2 hours after being placed from the shipping bag into the QT, but today, won't peck at anything, even live blackworms.

The other pyramid in the same QT shows no signs of distress or disease, and is eating well.

Stay the course with the antibiotics and a methylene blue bath today? Or should I switch the MB bath to Acriflavine? I can say that after the first 90 min acriflavine bath last night, the fish was a little stressed, and didn't seem the same, but I suppose that's to be expected.

4FordFamily · Sep 16, 2017

Humblefish said:
Whenever you see a red spot on a butterfly, don't hesitate to start with antibiotics.

Agree

foxt · Sep 16, 2017

Yep, started kanaplex/furan-2/metro last night, after an acriflavine bath. Now developing a cloudy eye and want to aggressively go after that. What's the next step?

4FordFamily · Sep 16, 2017

foxt said:
Yep, started kanaplex/furan-2/metro last night, after an acriflavine bath. Now developing a cloudy eye and want to aggressively go after that. What's the next step?

Your treatment should also help with most causes for cloudy eye -- have you dipped to check for flukes?

foxt · Sep 16, 2017

Have not done a FW dip yet, was focused on the red spot, suspected infection, and now it seems to be showing infection in the eye. I'm expecting to do either another acriflavine dip today, or a methylene blue dip. Can I do the FW dip before either of those? This fish is already stressed, will back-back FW and med dips be too much for it?

Humblefish · Sep 16, 2017

foxt said:
Have not done a FW dip yet, was focused on the red spot, suspected infection, and now it seems to be showing infection in the eye. I'm expecting to do either another acriflavine dip today, or a methylene blue dip. Can I do the FW dip before either of those? This fish is already stressed, will back-back FW and med dips be too much for it?

I think I would skip the MB bath and do a FW dip instead (to check for flukes.) You can wait until tomorrow if you feel he needs more time to recuperate, but an acriflavine bath should not really stress a fish out all that much. Most fish I've used it on look better/seem more energetic a few hours after the bath.

Humblefish · Sep 16, 2017

A FW dip will also help clear his gills of velvet, if that disease is in play: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

If you don't see flukes but he seems to perk up following the FW dip, I would consider velvet as a strong possibility and the infection is just secondary.

ngoodermuth · Sep 16, 2017

Did you aerate the bath before and during? And temp matched? Acriflavine is pretty mild in my experience, but acting a bit stressed from the catching and moving is normal.

foxt · Sep 16, 2017

Yup, aerated the bath before and during, along with having a heater in there to hold the temp around 78F.

I did manage to get him interested in eating by soaking some pellets in garlic this afternoon, so I feel encouraged by that. I think I will leave him alone for the rest of the day, and do a FW dip in the morning after he eats.

I need to hold off on the Prazi while I am running antibiotics, right? So if I see flukes fall off him, what's my next move?