Reef Crash, Chloramine, and a hot garage?

toads74

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Hi, i recently had an unexplained crash of my lps tank begin few weeks ago. Some corals suffering/dying out, lost a yellow tang, flame hawk lethargic, refugium macroalgae die off (complete). Later came red cyano, hair algae takeover.... At first i thought i was overdoing the nutrient export but this morning i found a possible cause. I have some additional concerns that i'd like some opinion on that might be contributors. I moved cross country about 8 months ago, taking frags, some live rock pieces, and fish. Added ro/di (old location was private well, no chorine, using just ro). 75 gallon, 5 damsels, flame hawk, 6 line wrasse, lightly stocked with various lps frags. Parameters like Alk, Ca, Mg, are the same as what i've been keeping for years.



Issue #1 - Chloramine

i made up some fresh ro/di (checked di tds - 0, all seems good), mixed in the salt, used a lamotte chlorine/total chlorine test strip - read 0 for both. Set the strip aside while doing something else, went to throw it away, and it read 3ppm total chorine. To double check, tried it on tap water. Read 0. Waited several minutes, turned blue - 3 ppm. The instructions say to dip 2 seconds and read immediately. Something is wrong with the test strips that are 8 months old...

Going forward i'll treat all new water with Prime just in case instead of relying only on the test. I also have a couple test kits ordered to check other parameters.

Does this sound like it fits with what i'm seeing the tank doing?



Issue #2 - Heat in the reservoir

My new location doesn't have a convenient spot inside the house for the reservoir (i mix about 25g + topoff at a time, for a 25g water change each month), so the filter, mixing station, reservoir are out in the garage. Its Florida, so much warmer than an air conditioned laundry room i had before. Reservoir temp today at noon was 32C, so the garage gets probably closer to 110F. I have a white brute (food grade) for the reservoir. My concern is that when i open the lid, it has a heavy plastic smell after a hot day. ro/di unit is next to it.

Would this be something to be concerned about with that reservoir or for the ro filters?


Thanks!
 

Saltyreef

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#1.
you are detecting total chlorine, not specifically chloramines.
To get a somewhat accurate picture you should use a free/total chlorine kit.
Minus the free chlorine reading from the total chlorine and this is your suspected chloramine content.

#2.
Could be a possibility if HDPE.
HDPE has been known to leach chemicals and less resistant than other plastics to heat even though its food safe.
I had an issue i couldnt put my finger on after installing HDPE starboard as a barebottom.

You could try a polypropylene container.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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On the test strips, waiting far longer than instructed is not a good idea. It does not just give more time to work, it can give false results.
 
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toads74

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#1.
you are detecting total chlorine, not specifically chloramines.
To get a somewhat accurate picture you should use a free/total chlorine kit.
Minus the free chlorine reading from the total chlorine and this is your suspected chloramine content.

I believe that is correct. City water report indicates they use chloramine, with seasonal flush with chlorine. Retested with the strips and got a different result, both tap and tank read 0 (even after waiting far longer than instructed), which is very unlikely to be the case. Previous tests months ago would show total chlorine but not free within a few seconds. Threw out the strips and going to replace, maybe with a liquid test. Maybe also test the tap as a control each time to validate the result.

#2.
Could be a possibility if HDPE.
HDPE has been known to leach chemicals and less resistant than other plastics to heat even though its food safe.
I had an issue i couldnt put my finger on after installing HDPE starboard as a barebottom.

You could try a polypropylene container.

Interesting. I checked the container, it is LDPE (low density polyethylene) and the lid is HDPE. I'll take a look at an alternate to be safe.

On the test strips, waiting far longer than instructed is not a good idea. It does not just give more time to work, it can give false results.

ok, wasn't sure if waiting affected the test significantly, but assumed it would.


Thanks!
 

Saltyreef

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I believe that is correct. City water report indicates they use chloramine, with seasonal flush with chlorine. Retested with the strips and got a different result, both tap and tank read 0 (even after waiting far longer than instructed), which is very unlikely to be the case. Previous tests months ago would show total chlorine but not free within a few seconds. Threw out the strips and going to replace, maybe with a liquid test. Maybe also test the tap as a control each time to validate the result.

Youll want to be aware the strips may not work in salt water.

You may benefit from an ICP analysis.
Both RO and salt samples are tested with ATI.
 
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toads74

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Youll want to be aware the strips may not work in salt water.

You may benefit from an ICP analysis.
Both RO and salt samples are tested with ATI.

Yes, i normally test before mixing salt. This time i forgot and did it after.... :grimacing-face:

Also you should use the hanna total and free chlorine chemical kits.
About $20-$25 each.
They come in handy for RO system maintenance.

Just ordered some...

Thanks!
 
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toads74

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here’s an update on the issue…

Got the total and free chlorine test kits (Hannah colorimeters). Both read zero from the ro unit before any salt mixing. Tap has 1.2ppm total chlorine, 0 free chlorine. Looks like that theory is likely out. Dosing prime with new rodi anyways just in case, and did two full tank doses a couple days apart. There was a lot of dying organics, so did this for the ammonia just as much as the chlorine potential.

I swapped the brute container for a 29g spare glass tank. After about 2 weeks and several ~25g water changes, the fish and corals are all improving substantially. I’m inclined to believe that the container was leaching something in the excess heat.

other tank parameters ca alk no3 po4 we’re ok, mg was a bit high at about 2000ppm. Skipping the mg supplement until it drops to more normal Levels. not worried, think it’s just high levels from the IORC I’m using.

working on getting the nutrient export via macro algae established, as well as beefing up the cuc as i lost a lot of snails from this event.

on the road to recovery….
 

Saltyreef

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here’s an update on the issue…

Got the total and free chlorine test kits (Hannah colorimeters). Both read zero from the ro unit before any salt mixing. Tap has 1.2ppm total chlorine, 0 free chlorine. Looks like that theory is likely out. Dosing prime with new rodi anyways just in case, and did two full tank doses a couple days apart. There was a lot of dying organics, so did this for the ammonia just as much as the chlorine potential.

I swapped the brute container for a 29g spare glass tank. After about 2 weeks and several ~25g water changes, the fish and corals are all improving substantially. I’m inclined to believe that the container was leaching something in the excess heat.

other tank parameters ca alk no3 po4 we’re ok, mg was a bit high at about 2000ppm. Skipping the mg supplement until it drops to more normal Levels. not worried, think it’s just high levels from the IORC I’m using.

working on getting the nutrient export via macro algae established, as well as beefing up the cuc as i lost a lot of snails from this event.

on the road to recovery….
So your tests confirm 1.2ppm of chloramine if free cl2 reading was 0.
Seems the carbon block is taking care of that just fine.
But interesting find on the brute and replacement with glass seemed to visually improve things.
Let us know how its going a month or so out on this successful improvement.

Good job and happy reefing!!
 
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toads74

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So your tests confirm 1.2ppm of chloramine if free cl2 reading was 0.
Seems the carbon block is taking care of that just fine.
But interesting find on the brute and replacement with glass seemed to visually improve things.
Let us know how its going a month or so out on this successful improvement.

Good job and happy reefing!!

thanks! The container is ldpe, lid hdpe. Would have thought it would be more resistant to heat than it is. Live and learn….

:oops: hopefully the silicone won’t leech anything nasty….

oh, and I’ve been flushing the rodi unit by discarding the first gallon or so when making water….
 

Saltyreef

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thanks! The container is ldpe, lid hdpe. Would have thought it would be more resistant to heat than it is. Live and learn….

:oops: hopefully the silicone won’t leech anything nasty….

oh, and I’ve been flushing the rodi unit by discarding the first gallon or so when making water….
I think you are safe with the silicone seals for the tank. Silicone is very heat resistant.

Check out this short article.
Right up your alley. HDPE and LDPE study.

Whenever i make water i "flush" my effluent line from the RO cartridge for a couple minutes using a DI bypass valve.
This also gets rid of the the tds creep from when the unit gets shut off.
But again i believe your carbon block is already taking care of most the chloramine.
Have you tested rejection % of your RO?
To see if its still going strong?

SpectraPure 3-Way Ball Valve https://a.co/d/08hioXR
 
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toads74

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I think you are safe with the silicone seals for the tank. Silicone is very heat resistant.

Check out this short article.
Right up your alley. HDPE and LDPE study.

Whenever i make water i "flush" my effluent line from the RO cartridge for a couple minutes using a DI bypass valve.
This also gets rid of the the tds creep from when the unit gets shut off.
But again i believe your carbon block is already taking care of most the chloramine.
Have you tested rejection % of your RO?
To see if its still going strong?

SpectraPure 3-Way Ball Valve https://a.co/d/08hioXR
I don’t have a valve before the di for sampling, but do have a tds meter there. Di input tds is about 15ppm, output 0ppm. The tap value it about 200ppm, so getting probably 90-95% rejection. Membrane is less than a year old.

funny thing about that brute container…. Been using it in the house for about 2 years before making a cross country move this past winter. Temperature matters.
 
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