Refer 625 G2 cycle update and question

nereefpat

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That’s great to hear. Thanks for the reply. Just so I understand, once the ammonia reads .25 I should be able to add a fish? I was planning on going to a fish store this weekend. I don’t have one locally so I have to drive an hour and a half so I wanna make sure it’s safe to add a fish. I’m not gonna go wild. Just gonna get something to keep things going.
It's hard to judge colors over the internet, but I'd say you're interpretation of about 0.5 ppm ammonia looks about right. It should lighten up a little more towards yellow.

The reason I say 0.25, is because to some peoples' eyes, when the result is zero, it will still have a slight green tint to it.

I would bet you'll be okay to add a small fish by the weekend, but I would trust your own eyes and trust your kit.

I would not add coral to a 10 day old tank.
 

brandon429

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Here’s coral in a 0 day old tank, tracked out to a year after start

how did Ike pull this off:




key detail: don’t believe the ammonia drop isn’t nearly instant when it occurs just because color kits have a ten day lag to report drops. The limitation on early coral stocking is feed availability and not bioload carry of the system. Today’s reef food options allow zero wait


I like to see reefing this way:

bioload carry readiness isn’t open ended, wait a little longer, or no reef convention could exist. Sellers know exact start date cycling, buyers get the doubt version. The unsure, wait a little longer maybe ready next week option (for a drop that occurs in minutes time, not weeks when measured digitally)


there are threads that show seneye day one cycle setup alongside an api with the api ammonia indicating unsafe ppm ammonia when the seneye ran .04 nh3 and that same seneye meter read .04 on a running reef to benchmark it.

it took api ten days to drop to what others would say is safe, after a long wait. The seneye ran .04 on both tanks the whole time, the running reef and the suspect cycle tank. Only api lagged ten days to indicate the drop after initial setup and dose of test load ammonia. Every cycle is waiting orders of days beyond their actual allowed start date, and it’s not helping to prevent fish disease we’ve found in pattern study. We need direct disease preps in order to protect fish, we had been told in the past that zero nitrite zero ammonia was all it took.

old cycling science replaces focus on fish disease preps with hyperfocus on nitrite being zero, a totally neutral parameter we don’t even have to know during a cycle.




non digital testing procedure issues, skipping nh3 conversion before reporting an ammonia alert in a help thread, has wrecked + set back and harmed updated cycling science but consistent start date ability preserves it. buyers are trained to see a positive nh4 reading and assume water bacteria failed to set up shop in water, and buy replacement bacteria.

buyer-rules cyclers wait open ended days…permission is only from the test kit


in fear of non completion they wait 3x number of days needed, such that bottle bac wasn’t even required so they’re wasting money. A feed-only wait cycle will be ready in fifteen days wait
(re: ammonia drop line of a cycling chart)


we can see from Ike’s thread, bottle bac work right out of the bottle.

Half of these perceived stalls, ammonia drop lags, result in more bottle bac purchased to make up for supposedly dead bacteria it’s all a huge sales ploy meant for buyers.


In any updated cycling science thread, exact start date biology is being practiced and tracked and nobody used bottle bac more than once. Bottle bacteria is never used in live rock skip cycles in our threads. Fish disease preps are given the immediate focus, and nobody has stalled after max ten days wait on a bottle bac cycle.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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You should buy a bag or three of pods from algaebarn

that diversity is #1 missing food web inclusion in dry starts

also: why not go buy ten pounds of premium coralline live rock which will food base your whole tank instantly

don’t concern over hitchhikers, you haven’t avoided any hitchhikers other than a mantis shrimp by starting dry. Hard scape coral items, snail shells, fish, will all vector in the common fare. Vermitids, algae cyano all coming and the way to win is not by altering water chemistry for the whole system, it’s manual cleaning of the substrate in question and keeping feed levels strong + exported well before they rot. Have a good skimmer here, expect uglies battles. Do not allow any form of takeover, that’s what buyers would advise. It’ll get you set back months in enjoyment. Hand clean all your invasions, refuse them, and in time you get to back off as the tank matures. Keep busy to disallow invasion. Give up now on vermitids we won’t beat those, accept now lol but fight the rest directly.


your corals are challenged by lack of feed diversity, it’s 0% base filter un readiness.
 
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It's hard to judge colors over the internet, but I'd say you're interpretation of about 0.5 ppm ammonia looks about right. It should lighten up a little more towards yellow.

The reason I say 0.25, is because to some peoples' eyes, when the result is zero, it will still have a slight green tint to it.

I would bet you'll be okay to add a small fish by the weekend, but I would trust your own eyes and trust your kit.

I would not add coral to a 10 day old tank.
Thank you. I checked the ammonia lvls again today when I got home from work. They have dropped even more now so I think I will be ok. I will do a water change before going to get a fish. I can’t add corals now anyway because my lights have been off and I need to figure what spectrum to use so it would just stress them out even more.
 
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Thank you. I checked the ammonia lvls again today when I got home from work. They have dropped even more now so I think I will be ok. I will do a water change before going to get a fish. I can’t add corals now anyway because my lights have been off and I need to figure what spectrum to use so it would just stress them out even more.
So I couldn’t help myself. I went to the lfs an hour and a half away. I was soooo blown away. The corals and the fish look amazing and completely different from what they look like on tv. It was my first time stepping into a saltwater fish store.
You should buy a bag or three of pods from algaebarn

that diversity is #1 missing food web inclusion in dry starts

also: why not go buy ten pounds of premium coralline live rock which will food base your whole tank instantly

don’t concern over hitchhikers, you haven’t avoided any hitchhikers other than a mantis shrimp by starting dry. Hard scape coral items, snail shells, fish, will all vector in the common fare. Vermitids, algae cyano all coming and the way to win is not by altering water chemistry for the whole system, it’s manual cleaning of the substrate in question and keeping feed levels strong + exported well before they rot. Have a good skimmer here, expect uglies battles. Do not allow any form of takeover, that’s what buyers would advise. It’ll get you set back months in enjoyment. Hand clean all your invasions, refuse them, and in time you get to back off as the tank matures. Keep busy to disallow invasion. Give up now on vermitids we won’t beat those, accept now lol but fight the rest directly.


your corals are challenged by lack of feed diversity, it’s 0% base filter un readiness.
I was gonna buy live rock when I went to the lfs today but he had none for sale. I did ask about copepods and so forth. He did have those. Not I haven’t really done enough research to find out anything about it. My research is basically asking on the forums and try to find some coral-ating data to support it. But I’m new and don’t know who or what to believe. Half the time it’s ppl trying to get you to buy stuff which I don’t mind if it actually works. Anyhoo. I picked up a clown and let my 4 year old pick the other. I also picked up a mushroom and I got home and immediately regretted it because I forgot to buy dip and I killed 4 or 5 critters that came flushing out of it when I took it out of the bag to examine it. (Are you allowed to closely examine the corals at the shop before purchase) . I was opting to throw it out but seeing as I had nothing else in the tank I figured the parasites ( if any were left, plus eggs) would stick to it long enough for me to get the dip and proceed with that process.
 

brandon429

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I never dip corals it stresses them right at the start, mine were just bought and added but they came from tanks at the lfs that were clean with no invasions like dinos in place. Regarding pods you have to order them online from algae barn
 
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I never dip corals it stresses them right at the start, mine were just bought and added but they came from tanks at the lfs that were clean with no invasions like dinos in place. Regarding pods you have to order them online from algae barn
I talked to Matt at my lfs and I told him the situation. Come to find out it was actually benificial pods that were on the coral. He pulled a coral out of his frag tank and showed me and I believed him. None of his frags looked under distress . He said another guy he deals with had a new tank set up and actually requested them for his tank. I bought some trigger pods? I think they were with some of his cheato. I don’t believe that is the right spelling. Again here we go with the advertisement. I just want to have a healthy tank and you are pushing me towards algae barn. No offense but you are starting to sound like a marketer more than a hobbiest. I do appreciate your help and like I said no offense. Idk why ppl can’t get into something they enjoy without diluted theses that benefit the major contributors aka companies selling the products you need to do your hobbie. I mean how did ppl do years ago without the tech we have now and still have successful tanks. I put some fish and my corals in my tank and I will let nature do it’s thing. If I fail I fail. Im tired of the advertisements and shunning. I think this is a beautiful hobbie and it has its place . You were right about the cycle. It doesn’t take as long and marketing has us believing that we need this and that. But you sound like you work for algae barn. The internet is diluted with false info and we have to filter out the garbage from the real. If I had the money and the resources I would run the tests myself. But my whole setup is on credit. Im gonna go to work Monday knowing that it’s to pay for the stuff I bought for my tank. I don’t regret it though. It has given me and my family something to bond with. Idk maybe this hobbie isn’t for me. But I know that I love it and I just need to know how to make it work. Not fancy overly expensive gimmicks. Every time I turn around I gotta buy this or that and I don’t even know if I really need it. Sorry for the rant. I believe you know what you’re doing. Thank you for your help.
 

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I talked to Matt at my lfs and I told him the situation. Come to find out it was actually benificial pods that were on the coral. He pulled a coral out of his frag tank and showed me and I believed him. None of his frags looked under distress . He said another guy he deals with had a new tank set up and actually requested them for his tank. I bought some trigger pods? I think they were with some of his cheato. I don’t believe that is the right spelling. Again here we go with the advertisement. I just want to have a healthy tank and you are pushing me towards algae barn. No offense but you are starting to sound like a marketer more than a hobbiest. I do appreciate your help and like I said no offense. Idk why ppl can’t get into something they enjoy without diluted theses that benefit the major contributors aka companies selling the products you need to do your hobbie. I mean how did ppl do years ago without the tech we have now and still have successful tanks. I put some fish and my corals in my tank and I will let nature do it’s thing. If I fail I fail. Im tired of the advertisements and shunning. I think this is a beautiful hobbie and it has its place . You were right about the cycle. It doesn’t take as long and marketing has us believing that we need this and that. But you sound like you work for algae barn. The internet is diluted with false info and we have to filter out the garbage from the real. If I had the money and the resources I would run the tests myself. But my whole setup is on credit. Im gonna go to work Monday knowing that it’s to pay for the stuff I bought for my tank. I don’t regret it though. It has given me and my family something to bond with. Idk maybe this hobbie isn’t for me. But I know that I love it and I just need to know how to make it work. Not fancy overly expensive gimmicks. Every time I turn around I gotta buy this or that and I don’t even know if I really need it. Sorry for the rant. I believe you know what you’re doing. Thank you for your help.
There is a saying Buy once cry once... Brandon was just sharing his knowledge and opinions and suggested one of his preferred vendors for your consideration. Algaebarn is a good source for certain things but certainly not the only online source or local LFS to get required stuff from. It's entirely up to you but one thing im thankful for as a new reefer with a 14 month old tank is all the people on here with many years of reefing experience sharing their knowledge to help me along. Trust me, your first year is going to be filled with highs and lows and a lot of frustration. If you don't QT fish or buy QT fish, we'll roll the dice and good luck. If you try to stock a new tank that isn't prepared with biodiversity and microfauna your corals will become a money pit of waste. Keep doing research and ask continued questions of the group here who only want you to be successful as a new hobbyist.
 
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Those are good words of advice. I wasn’t trying to ruffle feathers . I’m just frustrated. There’s just so much to process . So much info and so many different opinions. I am thankful also. Just to be able to have a tank is a blessing to me. I apologize if I was being offensive or more possibly defensive. This hobbie is huge to me. Thank you for reaching out.
 

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Those are good words of advice. I wasn’t trying to ruffle feathers . I’m just frustrated. There’s just so much to process . So much info and so many different opinions. I am thankful also. Just to be able to have a tank is a blessing to me. I apologize if I was being offensive or more possibly defensive. This hobbie is huge to me. Thank you for reaching out.
Well you started off by choosing a great tank with unlimited potential. I'd love to have a big reef like that one day. Just take your time, enjoy the experience with your family. Involve all of them in the hobby with you. The more patience you have ealy on the better the outcome will be overall and much less frustration as the tank evolves during its maturing stages.
 
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Well you started off by choosing a great tank with unlimited potential. I'd love to have a big reef like that one day. Just take your time, enjoy the experience with your family. Involve all of them in the hobby with you. The more patience you have ealy on the better the outcome will be overall and much less frustration as the tank evolves during its maturing stages.
 
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Thank you. To me I feel like I am having patience. The tank is 165 total gallons . I have 6 1-2 in fish in there. And 3 soft corals. I’m not trying to overstock I’m just trying to get enough in there to get the bio diversity we are talking about. I didn’t go crazy on the corals. I got a 1 in frag of a Duncan. A 1 in frag of rhicordia shroom and a 3/4 in frag of a rhodachtis Shroom ( which is gorgeous) . I mean that’s 15 in of animals in the tank. I might be looking at this wrong but I dosed what like maybe 40 ml of ammonia in the tank. Over a week. I’m feeding mainly frozen foods so mostly water concentrated. And reefroids. I put some chaeto and trigger pods in the refugium I have a skimmer at full bio load can handle 150 gallons. I have a pump that I’m running at probably 75 percent maybe 80 that’s rated for 1400 gph ( which I don’t think is enough because I can’t quiet the darn tank) im not sure they even come close to the ammonia levels that I put in with the dosing. I mean I don’t know for sure but it’s just a guess. Am I on the right track or should I change course. My salinity is 1.023/.024 (instant ocean) temp 77.5 -79.1 can’t seem to get it stable with the Helios. Dkh 9.7- 10.2 can’t seem to get stable yet. Ph (some say it doesn’t matter) 8.4-8.5 haven’t tested for nitrates or phosphates because of the high nitrite readings throwing off the nitrate form what I’ve heard. I did a 40 gallon water change last night before introduced the 2 clowns and richordia shroom. . 25 or below ammonia. (Api) been there done that. ☺️ I acclimated and introduced today 1 lt tang, 1 fairy wrasse @ maybe 2 in, 2 pajama cardinals around 1-2 in, 1 Duncan around 1 in, and 1 rodachtis around 1in.
 

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Parameters are difficult to keep stabil in a new tank which is why water changes are essential. Generally 2 or 3 fish every 3 weeks or so would be considered safe for stocking purposes to allow for the tank to acclimate to the bioload.
 
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Parameters are difficult to keep stabil in a new tank which is why water changes are essential. Generally 2 or 3 fish every 3 weeks or so would be considered safe for stocking purposes to allow for the tank to acclimate to the bioload.
Ok. I kind went over board on the fishies then. That’s ok though. I think I’m gonna wait a while. What do you have going on with your your tank? Do you have a thread?
 

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Ok. I kind went over board on the fishies then. That’s ok though. I think I’m gonna wait a while. What do you have going on with your your tank? Do you have a thread?
Well my 14 month old tank which is slightly less then half your size seems to be in a very good balance now with happy fish and thriving corals. I started SPS corals several months back and have about 20 frags now with great color and growth so far. But I'm also sad because my tank is basically packed full of coral now and 10 fish are the max to so now I just have to maintain the balance of my little piece of the ocean.
 
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That’s cool. I bet it’s gorgeous. I was really surprised when I went to the lfs and actually seen the corals and fish in person for the first time. When I see them on YouTube they look huge but in person they are fairly small. I might have went to big . It’s gonna take all of ten years to fill it up. Lol I also went with a little bit bigger tank because I knew this was something that I wanted to do and I didn’t want to go through the upgrade stages. And I heard they were more forgiving on parameter swings. Either way I’m committed now so I plan to see it thru to the very end . Preferably a happy ending.
 

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That’s cool. I bet it’s gorgeous. I was really surprised when I went to the lfs and actually seen the corals and fish in person for the first time. When I see them on YouTube they look huge but in person they are fairly small. I might have went to big . It’s gonna take all of ten years to fill it up. Lol I also went with a little bit bigger tank because I knew this was something that I wanted to do and I didn’t want to go through the upgrade stages. And I heard they were more forgiving on parameter swings. Either way I’m committed now so I plan to see it thru to the very end . Preferably a happy ending.
The big tank gives you great options for fish stocking and multiple focal points for coral placement. I think it's cool to start with tiny frag corals and care for them as they grow into mature colonies hopefully. I learn something new about this hobby constantly so just keep studying different areas of reefing and learn to apply the proven practices to your tank too.
 
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The big tank gives you great options for fish stocking and multiple focal points for coral placement. I think it's cool to start with tiny frag corals and care for them as they grow into mature colonies hopefully. I learn something new about this hobby constantly so just keep studying different areas of reefing and learn to apply the proven practices to your tank too.
I agree. There’s something very satisfying about taking care of things and watching them grow and become something bigger.
 
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Hey guys. Just an update and another quick question. I’ve added some fish and corals to the tank a going on 3 weeks ago. And a couple more last weekend. So far everyone seems to be doing fine. I think there may be some icy or small parasite infection not sure yet. Everyone seems to be eating and feeling good. Swimming around and what not. I did get a one spot foxface but had to take him out of the tank after 2 days because he ate my new Yuma and started eating my Duncan. I didn’t see him eat the Yuma but I did see him tearing into my Duncan. So I put him into the sump until I can get him back to the lfs. I am getting an algae outbreak. I have some film algae on the glass and some algae on the rocks and substrate. I scrubbed the rocks and did a water change. I bout 3 trocchus snails but one isn’t doing to good and the other 2 are frankly rather lazy. All parameters are fairly stable. Except after my water change I did notice a drop in alkalinity . From 9.3 to 8.9 nothing to significant I don’t believe. Anyhoo I purchased 2 Zoa frags from wwc . Some utter chaos and a Gaia. The utter chaos opened right away and seems happy. The Gaia on the other hand looks the same. So I was just wondering if it’s dead or maybe just stunned. Will post pics. Hope everyone is doing well and tanks are good as well. Thanks for taking the time to read this and any input is welcome. Happy reefing and cheers
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