Refugium and undergravel filter

[BurgerFish]

@GARRIGA
Like that is OK?

 

[GARRIGA]

@GARRIGA
Like that is OK?

That works but consider dispensing with the pumice and just use 2” of Reborn to trap detritus and break it down into ammonium plus as it melts it will release calcium and alkalinity. Assuming you have sufficient chaeto to remove all nutrients.

Might want to lower the spray bar unless you want to degas excess CO2. Every system is different. All depends on your PH and where you seek to maintain it. Plants will deplete alkalinity if CO2 is absent. Not something seen in reef tanks but large refugiums in relation to overall system could be too efficient.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

Sorry the PH in the sandbed of reborn would need to be around 6.5 to melt the reborn, its not going to work exactly as in a calcium reactor by any stretch of the imagination. My calcium reactor has 80 lbs of reborn in it, if the ph is not below 6.6 it would still have 80 lbs in 6 months, when i know darn well it will be down to around 50 lbs in 6 months at ph=6.5 in the calcium reactor. If your sandbed ph can melt reborn it your whole tank would also have to be at the same PH. None of my corals could live at ph=6.5 most likely yours cant either

 

[GARRIGA]

Sorry the PH in the sandbed of reborn would need to be around 6.5 to melt the reborn, its not going to work exactly as in a calcium reactor by any stretch of the imagination. My calcium reactor has 80 lbs of reborn in it, if the ph is not below 6.6 it would still have 80 lbs in 6 months, when i know darn well it will be down to around 50 lbs in 6 months at ph=6.5 in the calcium reactor. If your sandbed ph can melt reborn it your whole tank would also have to be at the same PH. None of my corals could live at ph=6.5 most likely yours cant either

My alkalinity rises and only contributor is the coral skeletons. I don’t dose. No WC. Plus coral melts below 7.8 and why we maintain PH above this level.

Recall reading Reborn melts at 7.2. In addition, the UF’s glow is likely greater than a calcium reactor and all materials including corals erode from flow.

Key here being this will contribute. Not replace a calcium reactor. Although in my situation it’s almost acting as one. Time will tell how efficient once consumers of calcium and alkalinity are added. For now I used acid to consume mine.

Something else to consider. The system PH doesn’t have to be low. Just the area where nitrification takes place. Nitrification acidifies the water. This is just science.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

reborn might start to melt at 7.2 but your sure not getting anyting useful as far as alkalinity or calcium coming out of a reactor. Have you ever used a calcium reactor, the whole reasoning for seperating the media in the reactor is to drop the ph down to melt the reborn. Science says the whole aquarium is a closed system, if your sandbed is below 7.2 then your tank has to be below 7.2. Your correct about how ph can swing base off algae gowth etc, but pretending your melting your substrate in your aquarim is just not correct .

 

[BurgerFish]

@GARRIGA but it won't rise the calcium or alk too much? My alk right now is 8.7.

 

[Jekyl]

@Paul B want to way in on suggested means for in fuge RUGF system? Might as well bring the master in on this. I think his surgery was today though.

 

[Jekyl]

For some reason I can't link it.... if you use the search button and type "asked me how" in, then (search titles only) there is a very good thread that comes up first from Paul. Try to help out while he's busy chasing nurses.

 

[GARRIGA]

reborn might start to melt at 7.2 but your sure not getting anyting useful as far as alkalinity or calcium coming out of a reactor. Have you ever used a calcium reactor, the whole reasoning for seperating the media in the reactor is to drop the ph down to melt the reborn. Science says the whole aquarium is a closed system, if your sandbed is below 7.2 then your tank has to be below 7.2. Your correct about how ph can swing base off algae gowth etc, but pretending your melting your substrate in your aquarim is just not correct .

Acid produced by nitrification melts the coral skeletons.

CO2 is added to a calcium reactor to lower the PH so that acid is produced. The PH directly doesn’t melt anything. Acid is the catalyst. Is that not correct.

My point on using Reborn being it melts at a lower PH therefore it should require less acid to melt.

Doesn’t PH below 7.8 melt live coral skeletons? Why wouldn’t that be the case with dead coral skeletons.

My understanding on the lower PH is that acidity is higher. High enough to melt the coral skeletons. Live or dead.

I’m not a chemist. Just how I understand it. It’s more about acid levels required to melt something vs PH. Although both impact the other. Hopefully that made sense. If not then someone please explain it to me.

 

[GARRIGA]

@GARRIGA but it won't rise the calcium or alk too much? My alk right now is 8.7.

It raises mine from 9 to 14. I just add Seachem Acid Buffer to bring it back down to 9. Once consumers are added I’ll see what happens. My bigger concern now is my calcium is through the roof. Last I checked it was 550. Likely doing a 40% water change this weekend. Never thought I’d be doing that to lower my macros elements.

 

[BurgerFish]

@GARRIGA
So, the system won't be stable? Can I use 2' of pumice instead to break down the waste?

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

The chemisty is CaCO3+H2O+CO2 is what are reacting. the CO2 is injected and that creates Carbonic Acid H2C03
PH is simply a measure of the Hydrogen and hydroxyl ions. its not creating anything in itself but its something we can measure With acids the Melt occures at the more concentrated or lower ph scale not higher example acid with ph=4 is many many times stronger than acid of ph 6 and acid of ph=1 will melt stainless steel. its a logrythmic scale.

the carbonic acid is going increase the soluability of your reborn (CAC03) that reaction is what is resulting in the the Ca (2+) ( your bio available calcium) and C03 (-2) (your bio available alkalinityu) that the reactor is able make available to your tank.

 

[GARRIGA]

@GARRIGA
So, the system won't be stable? Can I use 2' of pumice instead to break down the waste?

Yes. Although I wouldn't call it unstable. Assuming nitrification is driven feed input then any melting would likely be consistent since it's the nitrification causing the melt. All that I'm planning on doing is adjusting my dosing of the these elements. Only way it changes is if inhabitants are fed more or they consume more alk and calcium which would happen regardless of this action.

 

[Jekyl]

I have a 90g rugf system, with crushed coral, alkalinity is the thing I have to dose the most. Calcium stays pretty consistent.

 

[GARRIGA]

The chemisty is CaCO3+H2O+CO2 is what are reacting. the CO2 is injected and that creates Carbonic Acid H2C03
PH is simply a measure of the Hydrogen and hydroxyl ions. its not creating anything in itself but its something we can measure With acids the Melt occures at the more concentrated or lower ph scale not higher example acid with ph=4 is many many times stronger than acid of ph 6 and acid of ph=1 will melt stainless steel. its a logrythmic scale.

the carbonic acid is going increase the soluability of your reborn (CAC03) that reaction is what is resulting in the the Ca (2+) ( your bio available calcium) and C03 (-2) (your bio available alkalinityu) that the reactor is able make available to your tank.

Does nitrification inject carbonic acid? I don't know what acid is involved. Just that nitrification acidifies the water.

I know what PH is and why I'm stressing that what I'm proposing has nothing to do with PH and purely the acidification through nitrification. The point about PH merely to point out the being dead coral skeletons it would melt at a higher PH and thereby require less acid. For example, aragonite requires a lower PH therefore I conclude requires a higher amount of acid. To your point that 4.0 is more acidic than 6.0. I'm not a chemist. Also not clueless to reef keeping.

 

[Freenow54]

There is another thread regarding reverse flow gravel cleaners. I intend to do it on my third tank. Still working on #2

 

[BurgerFish]

Undergravel filter works much better in fuge compare to spray bar that become clogged very fast. Fuge also looks much better with Undergravel filter, less dead zones. Spray bar cannot handle the good flow in all refugium.