Request for seneye owners to use their calibrated meters to conduct bucket reef experiments and change reefing.

[brandon429]

these meters can be used by hundreds of people to generate new cycling science rules at a massive rate. let chatgpt pick up the results and you'll evolve reef tank cycling science tenfold. you have the meters

you can already see using seneye on your home reef nh3 control isn't a concern

re aim the calibrated meters as cycling experiment verifiers and upload the results.

take small portions of your live rock and scale it into cheap bucket reefs. do cycling things to it, test boundaries and post the logs. show maximum and minimum abilities for your cycle as collected seneye logs posted in one place for lookup.

-starvation experiments, do reef tank cycles ever starve once set. use the same live rock per gallon you'd use in any normal size tank, and do bucket reef experiments, post the readouts. withhold feed from it for months, 'starve' it

then hit it with a jolt of ammonia, test the 10 min resolve rate for nh3 bump/post that outcome.

-surface area reduction experiments: how much running live rock can you remove and still oxidize X ppm of nh3 per 10 minutes in a given setup

-max bioload carry rates, 10 mins/nh3 resolve rate for load tests in live rock sytems. use liquid Dr Tims cycling ammonia for the test loading. evolve cycling science by using a tool you've benchmarked on a home reef for cycle rules making.

-unassisted cycling verification: how long do dry rocks sat only in a tank of heated/running saltwater / open-topped common reef tank aquarium require to be cycled by wait time only, truly unassisted. no bottle bac, no feed, only environmental exchange over time.

we don't have the answer to these things, because we haven't seen ten thousand people with calibrated digital meters before.



use those meters to uncover cycling rules

double check what we've been told: can nitrite added as a powder, increased nitrite, stall ammonia control in a reef tank cycle?

a hidden benefit in thousands of people running seneyes are the patterns we get

-does removing a sandbed but keeping the rocks impact nh3 resolve rate significantly

seneye has already reinforced the age-old cycling chart as valid. it takes less than ten days to get ammonia control and after the drop, it remains dropped.

people who give live reef presentation talks or vlogs would greatly enjoy having these data sets uploaded to the web using existing gear-what cycling really does impacts $ markets

what we need bottle bac for, what we don't need it for, impacts markets. with just a few seneye bucket reef stress tests posted, we can get new cycling insights to build articles on updated cycle dynamics

 

[blaxsun]

Bump.

 

[brandon429]

Thank you vm for the lifter

Cycling science cannot progress until this is done using a calibrated meter

We're basically in the 1850's of cycling science / wild west / until we get some digital work done

Am hoping for *calibrated* meters to be used. = have the slide prepped and running on a fully stocked display first, to see what baselines a known cycled reef produces... then move that exact setup into the test sections for the win. The precise changes shown among setups will be our missing links


Let's see some comparison work between red sea, api and seneye. Salifert too. Add in a seachem alert badge

If someone inputs a calculated dose of ammonia into the setup known to produce 2 ppm ammonia, as we are all instructed to do during cycles, does each meter show that initial level fairly accurately? **do the resolve rates match and does any of the meters have a huge lag time compared to the seneye?

 

[brandon429]

Regarding patterns on file

Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?

So, after an interesting discussion on nitrate dosing and looking at my Walt Disney coral and seeing it slightly less colorful than I have seen it in others tanks, I have decided I want to learn about and then try dosing ammonia instead of buying 20 damsels. Nitrate additives I see abound and...

www.reef2reef.com

That is the only multiple meter work thread I know for seneye in display tanks. Their test was: resolve rates for adding raw ammonia

If that was an api test thread, results would be all over the place, it wouldn't be ten minute resolve averages.

If just one poster did the analysis we wouldn't have the patterns on file that show an inherent ability for all stacked rock display reefs to resolve ammonia quickly, *with no stalls*

Now compare that level of resolve above to this: nice pages of sheer ammonia control panic, via red sea

Apples to apples comparison: can display setups well past cycling close dates stall in ammonia control?

Sustained Ammonia spikes are misreads

The reason you think your reef tank can’t control its ammonia is due to false training from old cycling science. That and you don’t own a seneye on the tank in question: if you did, you wouldn’t ever think your ammonia was out of control...

www.reef2reef.com

The thread on seneye is complete resolve and zero panic

The thread using non digital testing is literally every extreme of ammonia noncontrol claimed: how we measure cycling matters. Post cycle reefs don't lose ammonia control.


I get my science by studying the grouped patterns and outcomes to the animals that people post on the web. Nobody in the seneye thread is buying bottle bac out of fear

In the red sea thread they're buying extra bottle bac in droves, that's a big market mover we can see in collating other people's posts on inherent ammonia noncontrol in display reefing. There are thousands of these seneyes out there, we want grouped feedback to show the inherent link to control all displays show regarding ammonia control. This means people who don't own seneye can rest assured their ammonia did not spike to 8ppm on month nine of running a completely stocked reef display (8 ppm help alert post inside the false stall thread)


One of the greatest takeaways from the group feedback will be to see if it's possible for a 2 month cycle setup on bottle bacteria to be stalled. The chemistry forum accepts non digital ammonia testing as fact in the majority of cases, this runs contrary to all logged seneye reports for two month bottle bac cycles:

Cycle question.

first BB tank with an NSA aqua scape so I know it’s minimal so I’ve added a large Xport block. I added cleanse and one and only and the ammonia. Tested daily then added the second round of ammonia. Tanks been sitting around 5-6 weeks and using Red Sea still reads ammonia reads 2, nitrites 5 and...

www.reef2reef.com

with bulk bucket reef seneye testing we can find the truth in cycling.

 

[brandon429]

The seneyes people have in their display aren't doing much to change or help the direction of the reef. They're not preventing crashes etc, they confirm daily that ammonia is fine if the current remains on and the fish remain alive in the system. If we could get at least a handful of the owners to move their meters into test setups those machines could be put to new and valued use

**another helpful test: make a cycle in a bucket reef using bottle bac and then add two clownfish or two small fish as a nominal bioload.

wait a couple days running to check the seneye baselines.

add another fish...did the ammonia spike uncontrollably?

@blaxsun any chance you might use your machine to run 1x side test for any aspect of cycling?

 

[Garf]

What do you mean, “calibrated”, the seneye instructions clearly state replacing the slide is the calibration step, as the slides become less reliable over the month. Calibration to the last slide, when folks get higher or lower numbers with the new slide, is rediculous. Perhaps you mean something else. I wouldn’t calibrate a new pH probe to read the same as the old one, for example. Calibration must be through an independent system, that is the purpose of calibration, not deliberately skewing the results.

these meters can be used by hundreds of people to generate new cycling science rules at a massive rate. let chatgpt pick up the results and you'll evolve reef tank cycling science tenfold. you have the meters

you can already see using seneye on your home reef nh3 control isn't a concern

re aim the calibrated meters as cycling experiment verifiers and upload the results.

take small portions of your live rock and scale it into cheap bucket reefs. do cycling things to it, test boundaries and post the logs. show maximum and minimum abilities for your cycle as collected seneye logs posted in one place for lookup.

-starvation experiments, do reef tank cycles ever starve once set. use the same live rock per gallon you'd use in any normal size tank, and do bucket reef experiments, post the readouts. withhold feed from it for months, 'starve' it

then hit it with a jolt of ammonia, test the 10 min resolve rate for nh3 bump/post that outcome.

-surface area reduction experiments: how much running live rock can you remove and still oxidize X ppm of nh3 per 10 minutes in a given setup

-max bioload carry rates, 10 mins/nh3 resolve rate for load tests in live rock sytems. use liquid Dr Tims cycling ammonia for the test loading. evolve cycling science by using a tool you've benchmarked on a home reef for cycle rules making.

-unassisted cycling verification: how long do dry rocks sat only in a tank of heated/running saltwater / open-topped common reef tank aquarium require to be cycled by wait time only, truly unassisted. no bottle bac, no feed, only environmental exchange over time.

we don't have the answer to these things, because we haven't seen ten thousand people with calibrated digital meters before.



use those meters to uncover cycling rules

double check what we've been told: can nitrite added as a powder, increased nitrite, stall ammonia control in a reef tank cycle?

a hidden benefit in thousands of people running seneyes are the patterns we get

-does removing a sandbed but keeping the rocks impact nh3 resolve rate significantly

seneye has already reinforced the age-old cycling chart as valid. it takes less than ten days to get ammonia control and after the drop, it remains dropped.

people who give live reef presentation talks or vlogs would greatly enjoy having these data sets uploaded to the web using existing gear-what cycling really does impacts $ markets

what we need bottle bac for, what we don't need it for, impacts markets. with just a few seneye bucket reef stress tests posted, we can get new cycling insights to build articles on updated cycle dynamics

 

[brandon429]

calibrated for my uses: the machine is setup and running on a fully running reef tank, to establish a running baseline for the unit in alignment with roughtly .001-.005 ppm nh3 this is what most reefs run at

then after that proofing step, it's used to make cycling rule assessments. we don't care if the baseline is dead accurate, we care about watching the shifts on the test loading like this:

see the baseline, then he added test ammonia loading bumps to .014 then in 30 mins, back down to super low then back to baseline. that's the precision other testers can't touch. api would have done .5 for the next eight days.

we can use that shock absorber measuring ability to proof all kinds of things in cycling.

 

[BeanAnimal]

What cycling science is needed? You put water in a tank and bacteria colonize it. It is as predictable as sunrise. We used to call it the natural nitrogen cycle.

What is the end goal here? There is SO MUCH more to a healthy aquarium than the "cycle".

Even if you could fully "cycle" (I hate that term anyway) a tank in an hour instead of a week what is the benefit? What do you gain? A few days? A week? Great - the system is still nowhere near balanced with regard to the numerous other living organism and bacterial and algal progressions that need to find equilibrium. Maturity and stability come with time not a bottle or a dead shrimp or capful of ammonia or dog crap or whatever the latest craze is. It all results in the exact same thing.

I have been in the aquarium hobby for 40 years and SW for 30. In those 30 years I have never seen so much handwringing about "cycles" and how to start a SW aquarium as I do today.