ROUND 2! PAR Shootout! Seneye Reef Monitor v2 VS. Apex PMK vs. Apogee MQ-510 Full

[jason2459]

So....

Round 2 has started!
Skip to it here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...ater-quantum-meter.292681/page-3#post-3612209


Original Round 1 continue on below:

Background:
I bought this Seneye Reef Monitor off another member on this forum mainly for the par meter for some basic tracking and comparing which lesson learned I should have done a long time ago. I quickly realized I also really liked some of the other features of the device.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...-for-the-established-tank-i-think-not.258297/

The PAR meter component alone though seemed like a great value and doesn't need any slides to work. BRS has stated that they found the Seneye to be better at reading LEDs then the older Apogee Par meter which is the 200 series also used by the Apex PMK.

In there Q&A for the Apex PMK.
BRS_on_Seneye_vs_PMK by Jason, on Flickr


The Apogee:
The newer Apogee 500 series like the MQ-510 is supposed to be adjusted to read a wider range for LED use and adjusted for under water readings.

http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/quantum/

MQ-510: Full Spectrum Underwater Quantum Meter
http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/mq-510-full-spectrum-underwater-quantum-meter/
http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/underwater-par-measurements




The Seneye:
BUT Seneye recently released a new firmware and software update SCA v2.

https://www.seneye.com/download

Which among other cool things like out of water alerting (great for ato/sump alerts) it also updated the light sensor to include PUR. Then I started wondering how it would compare to Apogee's new series designed more for LEDs and aquarium readings.


Testing Setup:
So, here we go with the comparisons. I'm sure it's not perfect but it's comparable numbers I find impressive. Both monitors varied a lot depending on direction the sensor was pointed so I had to be as still as possible and had the best luck resting the sensors on something. No difference there at all between the two. Both seemed very sensitive.

I'm still getting lighting spectrum adjusted and I still plan on playing with T5 bulb combinations which I have some ATI Blue+ and True Actinics on there way to try different combinations.

But for all the readings below are with the 2 rows of 2x photon v2 32" fixtures and the T5 dual bulb 80w ATI Coral+.

My lighting setup can be seen in this thread for more details which I just got setup over the weekend:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...nd-t5-installation-testing-and-review.292314/

Each fixture has the following LEDs
Channel 1 Deep Red 4 Osram 3watt 660nm
Channel 2 Green 4 Semi LED 3watt 520nm
Channel 3 Royal Blue 20 Cree XT-E 5watt 450nm
Channel 4 White 16 Cree XP-E 5watt 5500K
Channel 5 Cool Blue 12 Cree XP-E 3watt 480nm
Channel 6 Violet 16 Semi LED 3watt 420nm

x4 and that's 288 LEDS total

Clustered as so:
Photonv2_32_LED_Layout by Jason, on Flickr


I have my lighting ramping up from 9am to 11pm with a peak at 4pm

I'm starting low and going to ramp up a bit more as time goes by as I just got these up but right now as measured below

my 4pm %:
Ch-1: 2
Ch-2: 2
Ch-3: 20
Ch-4: 5
Ch-5: 16
Ch-6: 16

and my 6pm %
Ch-1: 1
Ch-2: 1
Ch-3: 16
Ch-4: 3
Ch-5: 14
Ch-6: 14

 

[jason2459]

The Readings:
So, here's the readings I took tonight comparing the Seneye Reef v2 firmware update and the Apogee MQ-510. (Sorry for the flash on the laptop as I had to use the flash to be able to read the Apogee's display too.)

Photon v2 6pm settings and T5's on. Near the middle of the tank and mid way down in the water. No rocks to shade.
6pm settings photon v2 + t5s by Jason, on Flickr

6pm settings photon v2 + t5e by Jason, on Flickr



Photon v2 6pm settings. No T5s. Near the middle of the tank and mid way down in the water. No rocks to shade.
6pm settings photon v2 only by Jason, on Flickr

6pm settings photon v2 only by Jason, on Flickr


Photon v2 6pm settings. No T5s. Off to the side with a cross brace over top. (I was very happy to see no difference statistically between no shading and cross brace shading showing me I've got some great spread going on)
6pm settings photon v2 only brace overhead by Jason, on Flickr

6pm settings photon v2 only brace overhead by Jason, on Flickr


Photon v2 6pm settings + T5's on. Middle of the tank about 6" from surface.
6pm settings photon v2 + t5 6" from surface by Jason, on Flickr

6pm settings photon v2 + t5 6" from surface by Jason, on Flickr

 

[jason2459]

Photon v2 4pm Settings + T5's on. Near the middle of the tank and mid way down in the water. No rocks to shade.
4pm settings photon v2 + t5 by Jason, on Flickr

4pm settings photon v2 + t5 by Jason, on Flickr


Terrible flash on glass picture
Photon v2 4pm Settings. No T5s.
4pm settings photon v2 only by Jason, on Flickr

4pm settings photon v2 only by Jason, on Flickr

 

[jason2459]

All of the rest are at 30% individual Channels.

Channel 1 Deep Red 4 Osram 3watt 660nm (edit: Just noticed this was the highest pur rating. Kudos to reef breeders for selecting deep red for the red channel led)
Photon v2 30% red only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% red only by Jason, on Flickr



Channel 2 Green 4 Semi LED 3watt 520nm
Photon v2 30% channel 2 green only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 2 green only by Jason, on Flickr



Channel 3 Royal Blue 20 Cree XT-E 5watt 450nm
Photon v2 30% channel 3 royal blue only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 3 royal blue only by Jason, on Flickr


Channel 4 White 16 Cree XP-E 5watt 5500K
Photon v2 30% channel 4 white only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 4 white only by Jason, on Flickr


Channel 5 Cool Blue 12 Cree XP-E 3watt 480nm
Photon v2 30% channel 5 cool blue only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 5 cool blue only by Jason, on Flickr

 

[jason2459]

Channel 6 Violet 16 Semi LED 3watt 420nm (Check out that PUR!)
Photon v2 30% channel 5 violet only by Jason, on Flickr

Photon v2 30% channel 5 violet only by Jason, on Flickr


My Conclusion:
I have to say the Seneye was right there shoulder to shoulder with the Apogee. Both were live readings so constantly changing but well with in 10 of each other and criss crossing. The Seneye also has the edge here in that it also provides the LUX, Spectral range, and PUR. I was skeptical on if the Spectral Range and PUR was accurate but after going through the individual channels I'm feeling pretty comfy with at least the Spectral Ranges. The latest firmware update and the Seneye really make for one heck of a good value for a light meter! I give the edge here to the Seneye for value and features!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Wow Bro. Thank you...

 

[jason2459]

Yeah, wow. I kept saying Wow through out the testing. lol

 

[reeferfoxx]

Amazing job! Beautiful setup and a great reference!

 

[jason2459]

Amazing job! Beautiful setup and a great reference!

Thanks and thanks for the input in my reef breeder photon v2 build out thread.

 

[TonapahNorth]

Thanks for the work you put into this. Well done.

I frequently switch between my Seneye and my Apogee200. I love the Seneye when I want details but I like the easy portability of the apogee .... I can just get a quick easy reading.

 

[Rich Kapoor]

Alot of hardwork went into it ... Thank you for this

 

[andrewey]

Fantastic testing and I was actually surprised by the outcome even after watching the BRS series. Great job and thanks for the results!

 

[teller]

Fantastic job!
I was always skeptical about Seneye par reader, thought it was a result of lux divided by a factor of 37!
Now i see I was wrong!
Thanks a lot.

 

[NanaReefer]

Bravo!! I feel better for owning the Seneye.

 

[jason2459]

Thanks everyone!

I have found the Seneye to be very useful and I will at least always make sure to have an active slide in mine when ever I go out of town. The ammonia monitoring may have been able to save my tank beginning of 2015 when I lost all my corals and other inverts due to a mold/mildew removing cleaners getting into my sump which caused an ammonia spike killing off several fish while I was away.


I also just noticed the PUR rating for the red only channel. I thought the violet only was high. Both had low PAR. Looks like the green and white channels had the lowest PUR rating.

 

[hart24601]

Wow! Nice, might has just sold me on seneye!

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Good info here, and I must say NOT at ALL what I expected!

 

[revhtree]

Thank you for doing this! Nice results for Seneye!

 

[jason2459]

Thanks and Thanks! I was surprised and happy to see how well the Seneye did. Looks like they just came out with another update to the v2 software.


Definitely shows how water effects and reduces Reds quickly with PAR so low while being driven at the same power intensity by the fixture. But with the PUR that high how much PAR is actually needed? Same with other color spectrums and PAR vs. PUR. Or are reds very useful or harmful? Could it promote algae growth as 660nm LEDs are used on my Trubo's Aquatics ATS if I remember right. And that thing grows algae like crazy. There's one paper out there showing Reds represses at least one type of corals. But what about others? Anemones? Clams? Etc.

Red Light Represses the Photophysiology of the Scleractinian Coral Stylophora pistillata

• Tim Wijgerde , Anne van Melisa, Catarina I. F. Silva, Miguel C. Leal, Luc Vogels, Claudia Mutter, Ronald Osinga

• Published: March 21, 2014

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0092781


PAR vs PUR
https://orphek.com/pur-photosynthetically-useable-radiation/


Algae Scrubber use of 660nm LEDs
http://www.turbosaquatics.com/features.html
Brand name matters
My Algae Scrubber light fixtures use top quality 3-watt Philips 660nm Deep Red and SemiLED 420nm Hyper-Violet LEDs, mounted to a metal-core PCB (printed circuit board).

Brand name matters, and on top of that, even the selection of specific LEDs from a manufacturer matters! This is referred to as "bin selection". The short explanation is that LED manufacturers make a huge batch of chips, then test them to see how they turned out, and sort them based on quality.

I don't go to discount suppliers, or get "grab bag" LEDs - those might seem like a cheap solution, but in case you haven't heard: I don't do cheap, I do quality. I only use specific bin numbers, and I use the same ones for all my scrubbers - and I always have. This ensures consistent quality from one unit to the next.

I use 660nm Deep Reds as the primary color spectrum. I use 420nm Hyper-Violets as a supplementary spectrum. I used to use Royal Blues, but I (as well as several others) learned that Royal Blues can actually be too intense (causing Photosaturation), and that the deep-violet spectrum works much better. It's worth noting that you won't find many (if any) Deep Red + Deep Violet off-the-shelf fixtures. The reason for this is because cheap violets suck @#% - they de-laminate and fry easily, and Royal Blue LEDs are just fine for growing plants (which incidentally is what most growth-lights are made for, they're not made for Algae Scrubbers). High-quality deep Violets are much more expensive, so no one looking to make a buck even bothers to look at them.

 

[jason2459]

Another perspective of PAR vs PUR. Above with the Royal Blue vs. Warm White is a good example. Both 5watt Cree LEDs.

The Royal Blue at 30% was around 79 PAR. The White at 30% was around 115 PAR. Much higher. But the PUR for the Royal Blue was 85% of that 79 so about 67.15 usable. The white was 56% PUR of that 115PAR so about 64.4 usable. That Royal Blue was more effective at a lower par.