Royal Gramma Flashing

[Jimbo]

I had a Royal Gramma and 2 Firefish in a QT tank under observation for 30 days. Showed no signs of disease and ate well so I did not treat with any medication.I added them to my newly cycled display tank on Sep 1. They were the first and only fish added. The tank is brand new with dry rock and no way that ick was present in the display already.

after about a week I noticed the Royal Gramma flashing. Usually in the same spot of sand near his hidey hole. He shows no sign of disease and is eating well and acting normal other than the flashing.

Both Firefish are behaving normally, no signs of diseaese and no flashing.

is it possible the flashing is being caused by something else besides parasites? Wouldn’t there be some signs of diseaese by now?
Any suggestions?

 

[atul176]

I had a Royal Gramma and 2 Firefish in a QT tank under observation for 30 days. Showed no signs of disease and ate well so I did not treat with any medication.I added them to my newly cycled display tank on Sep 1. They were the first and only fish added. The tank is brand new with dry rock and no way that ick was present in the display already.

after about a week I noticed the Royal Gramma flashing. Usually in the same spot of sand near his hidey hole. He shows no sign of disease and is eating well and acting normal other than the flashing.

Both Firefish are behaving normally, no signs of diseaese and no flashing.

is it possible the flashing is being caused by something else besides parasites? Wouldn’t there be some signs of diseaese by now?
Any suggestions?

Observation qt is not useful. Many times it’s impossible to see any parasites so everything might look fine but the fish could still carry. If it’s flashing I would put it into copper qt and use general cure or prazi to rule out ich, velvet, and flukes. I’m sure other experts will chime in.

 

[Alexoss]

Have a royal gramma for a few months now and he does the same "flashing" near it s hole
Perfect health, eats like an ogrish and growing.
does it mainly when i m in front of the tank with their dinner, but not everytime, saw it doing that 4 or 5 times, so i m wondering if it s not an "attitude" thing toward the other fish like cichlids do sometimes.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I had a Royal Gramma and 2 Firefish in a QT tank under observation for 30 days. Showed no signs of disease and ate well so I did not treat with any medication.I added them to my newly cycled display tank on Sep 1. They were the first and only fish added. The tank is brand new with dry rock and no way that ick was present in the display already.

after about a week I noticed the Royal Gramma flashing. Usually in the same spot of sand near his hidey hole. He shows no sign of disease and is eating well and acting normal other than the flashing.

Both Firefish are behaving normally, no signs of diseaese and no flashing.

is it possible the flashing is being caused by something else besides parasites? Wouldn’t there be some signs of diseaese by now?
Any suggestions?

Fish that flash frequently but show no other real symptoms often have flukes. Observational quarantine won’t help with these infections as they often don’t build in higher numbers until 4 to 8 weeks after you get the fish. Not all flukes infect all fish equally, there are different species. Grammas are prone to gill flukes, fire fish not so much.
If the flashing is frequent, you should probably dose the tank with Prazipro, it is mostly reef safe, just take your skimmer cup off, and add aeration to the tank. You’ll need to dose twice, 7 to 10 days apart.
Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

Scratching is a telltale sign that flukes are present. There aren’t physical symptoms of flukes, and freshwater dipping only diagnoses neobenedia flukes (others are microscopic). Best way to diagnose flukes is through behavioral observation as you found.

I prophylactically treat all my fish through 2 rounds of prazipro before I have my observation period. Flukes are all too common and often lead to secondary bacterial infections because of the microscopic wounds the flukes make.

 

[Jimbo]

Fish that flash frequently but show no other real symptoms often have flukes. Observational quarantine won’t help with these infections as they often don’t build in higher numbers until 4 to 8 weeks after you get the fish. Not all flukes infect all fish equally, there are different species. Grammas are prone to gill flukes, fire fish not so much.
If the flashing is frequent, you should probably dose the tank with Prazipro, it is mostly reef safe, just take your skimmer cup off, and add aeration to the tank. You’ll need to dose twice, 7 to 10 days apart.
Jay

Well, thanks for the help. I saw one of the Firefish rubbing on the sand yesterday so it’s advancing. Decided to treat the display with Prazipro this morning.

lesson learned, copper and prazipro treatment in the QT for all new fish…..I could have prevented this….

 

[Jimbo]

Well, thanks for the help. I saw one of the Firefish rubbing on the sand yesterday so it’s advancing. Decided to treat the display with Prazipro this morning.

lesson learned, copper and prazipro treatment in the QT for all new fish…..I could have prevented this….

So , I did the first treatment of Prazipro on Sep 15. Second on Sep 21. Fish were good for a few days and started flashing again today, 7 days after the second treatment.

possible that I missed some or timed it wrong ? Anyway I figured it can’t hurt to do a 3rd dose.
Fish still show no signs of disease and are eating well and behaving normally except for the flashing.
I’ve had these fish for 2 months now, wouldn’t they be showing signs by now if it is Ich?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So , I did the first treatment of Prazipro on Sep 15. Second on Sep 21. Fish were good for a few days and started flashing again today, 7 days after the second treatment.

possible that I missed some or timed it wrong ? Anyway I figured it can’t hurt to do a 3rd dose.
Fish still show no signs of disease and are eating well and behaving normally except for the flashing.
I’ve had these fish for 2 months now, wouldn’t they be showing signs by now if it is Ich?

You would see spots if this were ich. With egg laying flukes, timing of the prazi is tricky. Prazi doesn’t kill the eggs. You need to give time for the eggs to hatch out and the flukes reinfect the fish (the point where prazi can kill them) but before they can lay new eggs. Trouble is - the egg hatching time varies, and is also temperature dependent, as well as variable timing for different species…no good way to lock it down though. Two treatments 7 days apart works really well for livebearing flukes. For egg layers, three treatments may be needed, you could also increase the timing to 10 days. Neobenedenia is so hard to break the life cycle of, prazi often never works (I use 35 day hypo for them). I don’t think your fish have this species though.
Jay

 

[Jimbo]

You would see spots if this were ich. With egg laying flukes, timing of the prazi is tricky. Prazi doesn’t kill the eggs. You need to give time for the eggs to hatch out and the flukes reinfect the fish (the point where prazi can kill them) but before they can lay new eggs. Trouble is - the egg hatching time varies, and is also temperature dependent, as well as variable timing for different species…no good way to lock it down though. Two treatments 7 days apart works really well for livebearing flukes. For egg layers, three treatments may be needed, you could also increase the timing to 10 days. Neobenedenia is so hard to break the life cycle of, prazi often never works (I use 35 day hypo for them). I don’t think your fish have this species though.
Jay

I appreciate your help. I did a 3rd dose today so that is 7 days after the second dose. I did run carbon and did a water change soon after the second dose ( after 24 hours). Maybe that was too soon?

should I do a 4th dose do you think ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I appreciate your help. I did a 3rd dose today so that is 7 days after the second dose. I did run carbon and did a water change soon after the second dose ( after 24 hours). Maybe that was too soon?

should I do a 4th dose do you think ?

Typically, I wait 48 hours after dosing prazi before using carbon or changing the water, but the reality is that it loses most of its effectiveness after 24 hours. I guess I would have spaced the third dose out to ten days, but that is all just a guess in regards to timing. I've never dose prazipro 4 times. I'm not sure what the solvent will do. I've dose regualr powder prazi 4x with no issues.

Jay

 

[Jimbo]

Typically, I wait 48 hours after dosing prazi before using carbon or changing the water, but the reality is that it loses most of its effectiveness after 24 hours. I guess I would have spaced the third dose out to ten days, but that is all just a guess in regards to timing. I've never dose prazipro 4 times. I'm not sure what the solvent will do. I've dose regualr powder prazi 4x with no issues.

Jay

The 3rd dose was actually the 8th and almost the 9th day after the second dose. So closer to the 10 day you recommend. Hopefully this gets it I really don’t want to go for a 4th dose.

 

[Jimbo]

Typically, I wait 48 hours after dosing prazi before using carbon or changing the water, but the reality is that it loses most of its effectiveness after 24 hours. I guess I would have spaced the third dose out to ten days, but that is all just a guess in regards to timing. I've never dose prazipro 4 times. I'm not sure what the solvent will do. I've dose regualr powder prazi 4x with no issues.

Jay

If I decide to do a 4th dose how many days to wait after the 3rd do you recommend? Fish seem to be taking it ok. The Gramma was flashing even more 12 hours into the 3rd dose…. Seems they’re located on his gills. Still eating and behaving normally other than flashing.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If I decide to do a 4th dose how many days to wait after the 3rd do you recommend? Fish seem to be taking it ok. The Gramma was flashing even more 12 hours into the 3rd dose…. Seems they’re located on his gills. Still eating and behaving normally other than flashing.

I'd give it 10 days. Are you certain you have the dosage correct? Sometimes people are working off an incorrect water volume, and that messes with their dosage.

Jay

 

[Jimbo]

I'd give it 10 days. Are you certain you have the dosage correct? Sometimes people are working off an incorrect water volume, and that messes with their dosage.

Jay

Yes , I’m dosing for 120 gallon . Used a volume calculator.

 

[Jimbo]

Update: I decided against a 4th dosage, didn’t want to put a new tank through it again. Nothing has really changed, fish are healthy and eating with no signs of disease. Royal Gramma still flashing though , guess I’ll wait and see what happens.

 

[NuckChorris]

Update: I decided against a 4th dosage, didn’t want to put a new tank through it again. Nothing has really changed, fish are healthy and eating with no signs of disease. Royal Gramma still flashing though , guess I’ll wait and see what happens.

Is your Royal Gramma still doing this? I’ve had my RG for almost a month and he is doing the same thing.

 

[Jimbo]

He eventually stopped, he’s been doing great.