Sad Day

[ehealy13]

Pretty sure my cinnamon clown is the culprit, as I had a mild ich scare after introducing him to the tank. I treated with vitamins and thought they all very healthy enough to resist. This past weekend I noticed the signs again. I resisted cupramine, but for too long, as my lion fish died Saturday, my pink faced wrasse yesterday, and my Picasso trigger will probably be next, sadly. Worse part of the hobby, feel like I failed them.

 

[DC Reefer]

Sorry for you losses...

 

[Qasimja]

if it was ich it generally doesnt kill that quickly are you sure it wasnt velvet?

 

[Dolphis]

Sorry to hear that... it’s never easy...

 

[tim132]

It's always tough knowing when to pull the plug, catch, stress the fish and then treat with copper over just trying to manage an outbreak by feeding well.

It's tough thinking you've failed them, I do the same but I think you have to make your decision and believe the choice you make you've done it for the right reasons. Who knows, you could've made it worse by intervening earlier!

 

[ehealy13]

Sorry for you losses...

Appreciate it DC, definitely take the responsibility seriously.

 

[ehealy13]

if it was ich it generally doesnt kill that quickly are you sure it wasnt velvet?

Sorry, I introduced the clown probably around September and hadn't really noticed anything other than some itching while treating with vitamins and diet. My hippo had a bunch of spots about 2 weeks ago, so I up'd the vitamins and added some Stress Guard. Unfortunately not enough.

 

[ehealy13]

Sorry to hear that... it’s never easy...

Thank you, Dolphis.

 

[ehealy13]

It's always tough knowing when to pull the plug, catch, stress the fish and then treat with copper over just trying to manage an outbreak by feeding well.

It's tough thinking you've failed them, I do the same but I think you have to make your decision and believe the choice you make you've done it for the right reasons. Who knows, you could've made it worse by intervening earlier!

Thank you Tim, there's just so much information out there and approaches that work for some and not others. Since the tank is only 6 months old I was hoping to avoid adding things like copper. I received a lot of local advice from friends in the hobby, all well-intentioned, but many conflicting. Like you mentioned, tough to tell what the right call is.

 

[tim132]

It definitely is. There's always one side of the fence that says you must remove and treat all fish and run fallow for 76 days. Then the other side says keep stress levels low and feed well, vitamins and varied diet, run UV.

I tried the latter approach for 6 weeks and with each strain of ich it just seemed to get worse. I even tried h2o2 for a couple of weeks to no avail... maybe this helped to alleviate the infestation in the fish.

Last thing I wanted to do was remove all my fish, especially as just before Christmas I lost my first fish in quarantine and typically it was the most expensive one I'd brought, a beautiful little purple tang, I felt terrible!! It knocked my confidence for sure.

One evening a couple of my DT fish were displaying symptoms of what I believe was velvet. Right there and then I made a decision to remove everyone and treat them with copper in QT. It was in their best interests and if the worst was to happen I know I did it for the right reasons, I think that's the best way to look at it. I prepared myself for losses.

 

[gentlefish]

Sorry for your loss. Also thanks for the strength to share this unfortunate outcome as we can learn from each other’s mistake if we choose to listen.

 

[ehealy13]

It definitely is. There's always one side of the fence that says you must remove and treat all fish and run fallow for 76 days. Then the other side says keep stress levels low and feed well, vitamins and varied diet, run UV.

I tried the latter approach for 6 weeks and with each strain of ich it just seemed to get worse. I even tried h2o2 for a couple of weeks to no avail... maybe this helped to alleviate the infestation in the fish.

Last thing I wanted to do was remove all my fish, especially as just before Christmas I lost my first fish in quarantine and typically it was the most expensive one I'd brought, a beautiful little purple tang, I felt terrible!! It knocked my confidence for sure.

One evening a couple of my DT fish were displaying symptoms of what I believe was velvet. Right there and then I made a decision to remove everyone and treat them with copper in QT. It was in their best interests and if the worst was to happen I know I did it for the right reasons, I think that's the best way to look at it. I prepared myself for losses.

Thanks for sharing Tim, great insight. I definitely need to invest in a QT, especially once I get my reef system. I had to dose my DT directly with the cupramine to do whatever I could to mitigate the damage. I agree with trying to keep the stress levels as low as possible. I haven't lowered the salinity yet, or adjusted the temperature. I am, however, testing the copper each morning to ensure the tank stay at .5 for the recommended 14 days, then I will start trying to pull it out of the system with carbon and/or cuprisorb.

Really appreciate everyone on here, what a great community to be part of!

 

[ehealy13]

Sorry for your loss. Also thanks for the strength to share this unfortunate outcome as we can learn from each other’s mistake if we choose to listen.

Thank you gentlefish. Certainly not the outcome I had hoped for this early into the hobby.As you said, hoping to learn and improve from the experience.

 

[tim132]

Thanks for sharing Tim, great insight. I definitely need to invest in a QT, especially once I get my reef system. I had to dose my DT directly with the cupramine to do whatever I could to mitigate the damage. I agree with trying to keep the stress levels as low as possible. I haven't lowered the salinity yet, or adjusted the temperature. I am, however, testing the copper each morning to ensure the tank stay at .5 for the recommended 14 days, then I will start trying to pull it out of the system with carbon and/or cuprisorb.

Really appreciate everyone on here, what a great community to be part of!

Hope it all works out well for you and your able to get on top of the parasite!
@Jay Hemdal recommended a poly filter or Cuprisorb to me. Apparently carbon isn't as effective at removing metals, something to consider.

 

[ehealy13]

Hope it all works out well for you and your able to get on top of the parasite!
@Jay Hemdal recommended a poly filter or Cuprisorb to me. Apparently carbon isn't as effective at removing metals, something to consider.

Thanks for the tip! I really like the SeaChem product line, so I'll give it a try. The copper test is a bit hard to read and seems to stain the egg crate testing plate a bit with use. Other than that I have nothing but positive things to say about their line.

 

[ehealy13]

**UPDATE** The trigger is beat up, but came out to eat today! Fingers crossed!!

 

[ehealy13]

Good morning, trigger continues to show signs of improvement and attacked the LRS as soon as I put it in this morning! I am showing trace signs of ammonia (.2 RedSea test; .25 API test) since I am in a therapeutic phase I don't believe I should be adding anything other than vitamins and maintaining .5 cupramine levels, correct? I can do a water change, but I did not want to put any stress on the fish. I considered feeding less, but also wanted to maintain their diet/energy while treating and fighting to recover. Any/all suggestions are welcomed and appreciated. Thanks!

 

[ehealy13]

Trying not to be too optimistic but the trigger has been swimming, eating, and behaving normally since Sunday! I've maintained the .5 cupramine and have about another 7 days left before I start to extract the medicine. If there is any proven benefit to longer treatment, I am open to learning. Haven't witnessed any of the fish itching, or demonstrating any behavior common with ich (or parasites) in a few days.

 

[tim132]

Glad to hear you're seeing results!

I was of the understanding that 14 days in copper will rid the fish of cyrpto but then the fish should be moved to another tank. Whether that's a sterile holding tank or your DT.

If you're planning on removing the copper treatment but then leaving the fish in the same tank for observation or treating for flukes, bacterial infections, etc then any encysted ich (tormonts?) could still hatch and reinfect your fish.

I believe this is why 30 days copper is usually done.

I'm just testing my limited knowledge here. I'm sure someone else can confirm...

 

[ehealy13]

Glad to hear you're seeing results!

I was of the understanding that 14 days in copper will rid the fish of any parasite but then the fish should be moved to another tank. Whether that's a sterile holding tank or your DT.

If you're planning on removing the copper treatment but then leaving the fish in the same tank for observation or treating for flukes, bacterial infections, etc then any encysted ich (tormonts?) could still hatch and reinfect your fish.

I believe this is why 30 days copper is usually done.

I'm just testing my knowledge here. I'm sure someone else can confirm...

Thank you tim132. I don't have a QT setup yet, so I'll need for them to stay in the DT. IF cupramine doesn't harm them, I am fine with leaving it in for 30 days to ensure we are rid of the parasites. @Jay Hemdal tim132 had tagged you in this thread. You seem very helpful in the posts I've read, any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all,

Ed