Sales forum has gotten out of hand

[revhtree]

Oh and I forgot this part. If I can trade for advertising then I’ve been known to do that too!

 

[Aaron75]

Soooo... have you guys started that free forum yet?

 

[Jmp998]

I'd be happy to give frags away. But people are so flaky about coming to get them. It's so much effort to coordinate.

I had this problem A LOT when I used to sell LPS frags locally a few years ago. Nothing super high end, just nice no-name torches, goniopora, etc. If I have something that grows well for me, I don't mind selling overgrown frags for a reasonable price, but don't waste half my Saturday telling me you are coming at 9AM, then text at 930 that you are running a little late, then at 10 you're about to leave, then at 11 that you're on the way, then finally show up at noon.

 

[DIYreefer]

Oh and I forgot this part. If I can trade for advertising then I’ve been known to do that too!

We all have our ways of supporting our addiction.... I mean, hobby.

 

[zoomonster]

The whole industry is just FUBAR with greed today. Other than maybe some clubs "frag swaps" are nothing more than a show you pay admission to and it's just a bunch of vendors big and small. There's no swapping going on. Too many people buying stuff they can't afford think they are going to make big bank off it when chances are they probably kill it anyway. The actual mariculture farms like in Indo have the potential to snuff the so called aquaculture places with nice grown out colonies at reasonable prices. But no... too many of the places buy up all those colonies, chop them up, glue them up and sell fresh frags and call it aquacultured for sometimes more than the whole colony costs. Worse yet people with more money than brains snap up all the stuff and drive the ridiculous faddish naming and pricing. Here in FL with the aquaculture laws and licensing the shops may report you if FF&WL doesn't catch you first selling anything w/o a license. Total monopoly that cuts out the hobbyist. Hence the end of actual frag swaps.

 

[DIYreefer]

I had this problem A LOT when I used to sell LPS frags locally a few years ago. Nothing super high end, just nice no-name torches, goniopora, etc. If I have something that grows well for me, I don't mind selling overgrown frags for a reasonable price, but don't waste half my Saturday telling me you are coming at 9AM, then text at 930 that you are running a little late, then at 10 you're about to leave, then at 11 that you're on the way, then finally show up at noon.

I would have forgot about them and carried on with my day by 9:30. No sense in bending over backward to help someone that doesn't even give enough courtesy to show up on time.

 

[doubleshot00]

Im just scared to buy anything ove $100 just to watch ch it die in my tank. Glad everyone else has success in all corals. Ive had to many coral just rtn for no reason to spend big money.

For example I just bought a $65 goni frag thats just withering away in my tank but looked great at a local store. So i found another slightly different color goni from a different vendor for $25 and its doing great. This also has happened to me about hammers to.

 

[DIYreefer]

Im just scared to buy anything ove $100 just to watch ch it die in my tank. Glad everyone else has success in all corals. Ive had to many coral just rtn for no reason to spend big money.

For example I just bought a $65 goni frag thats just withering away in my tank but looked great at a local store. So i found another slightly different color goni from a different vendor for $25 and its doing great. This also has happened to me about hammers to.

I get it, that's why I have devised a solution to ease the pain of watching that $100 frag dwindle away. First of all, it sucks losing ANY livestock, regardless of price. However, if you find something that you are good at growing and it is something that is always at least relatively in demand, you can easily offset your costs buy selling/trading said coral to fuel your addiction and knowing that you've paid for that $100 frag with money you habe made from selling other corals eases the pain a little. At least for me it does, anyway.

For me, it's jawbreakers. For whatever reason I can grow them ridiculously fast. The jawbreaker frags that I have sold and traded offset the expense of my systems 100% and have allowed me to acquire quite a few corals that I wouldn't have otherwise. I'm not even a "mushroom guy" per se, but I'm good at growing them so that's what I went with. ‍‍

 

[SpyC]

I get it, that's why I have devised a solution to ease the pain of watching that $100 frag dwindle away. First of all, it sucks losing ANY livestock, regardless of price. However, if you find something that you are good at growing and it is something that is always at least relatively in demand, you can easily offset your costs buy selling/trading said coral to fuel your addiction.

For me, it's jawbreakers. For whatever reason I can grow them ridiculously fast. The jawbreaker frags that I have sold and traded offset the expense of my systems 100% and have allowed me to acquire quite a few corals that I wouldn't have otherwise. I'm not even a "mushroom guy" per se, but I'm good at growing them so that's what I went with. ‍

Tell me more about these jawbreakers. Have any available? Lol

 

[DIYreefer]

Tell me more about these jawbreakers. Have any available? Lol

I started with 12 polyps on one little frag disk a little over a year and a half ago. Today, I have well over 100 polyps (probably closer to 200, honestly). Last month I started selling them in the classifieds here, 10 frags at a time. I can sustainably sell 10 frags every month and always have at least 100 in reserve. I've always really enjoyed aquaculture so I built a rather large (for a hobbyist) frag tank that holds about 100 gallons of water. I'm considering the idea of building another one solely to grow out jawbreakers. Not so much for the financial potential, but more so to see if I can get to 1,000+ polyps. I just think that would be cool, lol.

 

[Zero_Cool]

This is how I got started in 2003. Had a bunch of kids, took a break. Came back seriously this year to a completely different market.

Same for me. I am really surprised by what I see. Mushrooms for $800?

 

[GatorGreg]

Independent sellers with zero overhead, possibly no company structure (LLC formation, etc) and no storefront (digital or otherwise) are charging at or above market for livestock.

I hope everyone understands that the heart of this hobby are in person frag swaps and below market peer to peer sales in a digital setting. LFS visits and online retailer shopping is also fun, BUT not what makes the community.

All of you are ruining the market. Importers and retailers will up their prices to follow this trend.

What did everyone say to me in a thread a couple days ago? Something about the “free market”. Unfortunately there’s a bunch of people who think that it’s anti capitalism to question of the morality of price gouging. I was even told to find another hobby if I think the prices are getting outrageous on coral that these vendors and hobbyist alike super edit the photos on corals in their perfect systems exhibiting colors that only few reefers will be able to imitate. Once they get in most people’s systems the turn normal colors. Those who shall not be named give these outrageous names and the Pokémon collectors eat it up and spend 300 bucks on a single zoa polyp. I agree it’s getting out of hand

 

[GatorGreg]

I understand that people have to make money. I get it. But to take a coral and if you squint your eyes hard enough see a slightly different color than the run of the mill version. Then you says it’s the “super sayan blue butt blaster” version of it and charge double. That’s just ridiculous and what I’m referencing when I smack talk this subject. Plus they’re selling tiny almost microscopic pieces at that. It’s just unmitigated greed

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Im just scared to buy anything ove $100 just to watch ch it die in my tank. Glad everyone else has success in all corals. Ive had to many coral just rtn for no reason to spend big money.

For example I just bought a $65 goni frag thats just withering away in my tank but looked great at a local store. So i found another slightly different color goni from a different vendor for $25 and its doing great. This also has happened to me about hammers to.

I agree with you, it's definitely hard to swallow loosing a $100+ Coral in a matter of weeks due to something random happening to it

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I understand that people have to make money. I get it. But to take a coral and if you squint your eyes hard enough see a slightly different color than the run of the mill version. Then you says it’s the “super sayan blue butt blaster” version of it and charge double. That’s just ridiculous and what I’m referencing when I smack talk this subject. Plus they’re selling tiny almost microscopic pieces at that. It’s just unmitigated greed

I just don't understand your position. Unless something is mislabeled or misdescribed or blatant false advertising, I don't see how that fact that you do not think it is worth the price means someone else must agree with you.

There are a lot of things (in the hobby, and in the wider world) that I wouldn't buy even if the price was 100x lower than it is, but that does not mean there is anything wrong with someone selling things for that price and someone else buying it at that price.


Everyone values different things differently. There is no absolute fixed value associated with any item one might buy.

 

[Robert Ranciato]

Not obligated but it's the only way most people can afford to get high end corals without paying ridiculous prices for vendors like worldwide corals and topshelfaquatics

 

[paragrouper]

The price will always be what the market will bear.

I never fault anyone for trying to make a buck—I just don’t buy if i don’t like their price.

 

[H@rry]

I price my frags according to how fast they grow and how fast they sell. If I have a coral that is growing faster than its selling I reduce my price. On the other hand if it sells faster than it grows I raise the price. Sooner or later they all reach the correct price point that people are willing to pay and the colonies stay about the same size. I have many $15 frags and nothing more than $150. Also, I offer free FedEx shipping so you see there's not a whole lot of money in it for me.

 

[Zaven D]

I personally am super conflicted about this subject.

On one hand yeah you don’t pay overhead for a business and operating costs however you do have an electrical bill, and have to pay for the supplies needed to maintain and grow your system. Which is why I feel personally I charge based on how long it takes me to grow the frag, and how the current market trends are going on in the forums. One thing I can say is that I cannot stand people who complain about pricing and a lot of people out there want to get away with buying a higher end frags for dirt cheap. On the other hand I cannot stand folks who charge 100x the price on a small nub and price it as a decent sized frag. It is a double edged sword however I see it. So you should price your frags fairly since it did cost you more to buy it in the first place and money and time to maintain the system that you are running.

I do love trading and swapping corals although I personally feel that you should keep it fair as far as value goes. I have had people get upset with me over not wanting to trade certain higher end sticks for a common eagle eye zoanthid.

Boil it down even further some people just overcharge the hell out of people for certain corals and I’m tired of seeing that as well. (Let’s look at the price for stratosphere zoas several months ago vs now)

If you made it this far on my rant you can tell I am very conflicted about this and think about it all the time.

 

[aws2266]

What happened to hobbies just being fun? Everything now has to make you money. The first thing I got asked when I told a friend I was getting into the hobby was how can you make money off of it? I hate that mentality. Don't get me wrong, I've got side gigs but I'm not in the hobby to make money. To that end, I try to give everyone that I deal with a good deal and try to get one for myself. Most of the time people get really good deals from me because once I decide I'm selling something I want it gone.

I loathe resellers. They are a cancer in this world.