Sales forum has gotten out of hand

[albano]

. Also, when selling dry goods, a lot of them must be sold at a specific price set by the manufacturer, or risk losing the account.

That’s what they’d like you to believe… but most shops will sell at a discount from the price fixing, I mean map pricing amount, although they don’t/won’t give a receipt at discounted prices… ‘no paper trail’. I’m fine with that.(rarely have I ever returned anything)

 

[zoomonster]

That’s what they’d like you to believe… but most shops will sell at a discount from the price fixing, I mean map pricing amount, although they don’t/won’t give a receipt at discounted prices… ‘no paper trail’. I’m fine with that.(rarely have I ever returned anything)

Yeah please don't get me started on the MAP price fixing racket (that should be illegal). Like you said some shops will sometimes work around it with points, livestock credit for purchase etc. It probably only gets worse with Bertram controlling BRS+Marine Depot, Ecotech and Neptune. They are going to want some serious return on investment.

 

[TARHEEL78]

Yeah please don't get me started on the MAP price fixing racket (that should be illegal). Like you said some shops will sometimes work around it with points, livestock credit for purchase etc. It probably only gets worse with Bertram controlling BRS+Marine Depot, Ecotech and Neptune. They are going to want some serious return on investment.

MAP isn't price fixing, they can still sell it for whatever they want. They just can't advertise it below a certain price.

 

[albano]

MAP isn't price fixing, they can still sell it for whatever they want. They just can't advertise it below a certain price.

You could be right, but it seems that many retailers don’t understand that, or don’t want to understand that!

 

[Falreef]

You really think it's a good idea to just crash the market on every coral? All i see in here are people whining they aren't getting dirt cheap coral at other people's expense. If I paid $100 for a frag, grew it out and then frag it why should I sell it for $20? Oh I forgot, it's so you benefit not me. I have to pay for my tanks, gear, hydro, salt and additives not to mention time spent on the tanks but if you believe people in here I have no overhead and put no work into anything. Again, you guys are just whining someone else isn't footing the bill for you and selling you corals at a loss.

In it for mine an profit? Or in it for hobby and enjoyment and community?

 

[rc8t6353]

You’re missing the point. Of course someone will alway pay. My point is that as a community we should not price our sales similar to retail.

I think what you just said simplified exactly what I was thinking

 

[Asagi]

Agreed don't like it and the sales forums should be split. For that matter a lot of times you can't discuss anything without some business member/sponsor interjecting. But like everything it's about the money, member fee's and nothing is free. I mean someone has to pay for Rev's trip to Reefapalooza

Retail sales forum and a user sales forum. Makes sense. If a member is paying to upgrade their account by sponsoring R2R in some way, they should be allowed to post in a sponsored sales forum. This would help them not to get buried by personal sale user posts.

 

[Asagi]

You really think it's a good idea to just crash the market on every coral? All i see in here are people whining they aren't getting dirt cheap coral at other people's expense. If I paid $100 for a frag, grew it out and then frag it why should I sell it for $20? Oh I forgot, it's so you benefit not me. I have to pay for my tanks, gear, hydro, salt and additives not to mention time spent on the tanks but if you believe people in here I have no overhead and put no work into anything. Again, you guys are just whining someone else isn't footing the bill for you and selling you corals at a loss.

Bert you haven’t made a single sale thread.

 

[MnFish1]

Id say if you want that specific "high end" acro you need to buy from an online store who is offering it at their price.

SoCalReefer69420 (i hope his isnt a real username LOL) is just buying the coral from them, growing it out, hacking it up and selling it back into the market at the newly established market rate. That independent seller has taken zero risk other than capital he put down to buy the initial frag.

These online retailers are taking a lot of risk. They are also a direct link to the importation business, which we all heavily rely on to get our livestock. We need to support them. OR make a buddy who owns a local fish shop to purchase the thing wholesale form the same online retailer. Maybe he'll sell it to you at cost.

I'm all for buying and selling corals on this forum, just not at the same price as retail. This moves the dial in teh wrong direction.

I'm all for Getting the lowest price possible. That said - I wish xxx Hardware store would sell the same products and the same price as Home Depot. I also wish grocery stores wouldn't sell xxx item at 1/2 the usual price to get you in the door.

I frankly see sympathy but no real merit to your request. I have never sold coral online - but - if I wanted to I would have to buy a tank, lighting the coral, do the testing (work) on a smaller (more expensive scale). I could not buy (probably) equipment wholesale unless I became an LLC, etc. BTW - small sellers have higher shipping costs (no volume deals) - and they also need to be collecting sales tax and paying that accounting in their states (though I wonder how many do?. They also should be paying income tax.

The prices on the sellers forum are what the market will pay. If you want to pay less - send a DM to the seller and make an offer.

 

[MnFish1]

If everyone dropped the price of torches on the livestock forum, I can almost guarantee so would stores. I went to a swap this past weekend and almost every " ask" price, the vendor went on a website to see what they were charging. This is just my example/ 2 cents.

No they wouldn't - IMHO/2 cents. First of all there are probably a bunch of people on the livestock forum that are breaking even as @OrionN implied - so - the chances of everyone lowering prices is nil. Second - If I had a litter of puppies of good quality - registered, etc - Would I be expected to lose money. -so that someone else can get a better deal? IMHO - no. There is a market for 'things'. The market should have a fairly consistent price - and depend on market conditions. My LFS has plenty of corals, a weekly 'coral sale'. They also have ridiculously priced corals (the ones in high demand).

My guess is that when you (or anyone else) - goes in to buy a new car/trade in an old one - they want the highest price for their car - and the lowest price for the new one. If all Ford owners banded together and lowered the prices on their trucks, it would don't lower the price of Ferraris.

 

[MnFish1]

I think you are missing the point of the thread.

This is in response to hobbyists charging retail on the forum.

I think you are missing the point that multiple people disagree with you. Hobbyiests charging retail on the forum may very well be doing so to great even - BTW - Where would you ever get the idea that people doing this from home can do it more cheaply than an LFS? BY the way I've already said I think the prices for some of the corals are ridiculous - both online and in stores

 

[MnFish1]

I sold some last year for $5 a head. They were 2 and 3 head frags.
I need to chop up some more.
Shipping is where all the work and supplies drive up the price.
I don't think I will ever do that.

I think you make a fair point. In the case of a hobbyist that has a growing coral - they are cutting off pieces - and are either going to throw them away or sell them - that is a different scenario than many of the online vendors (forums) I have read - they have coral rooms, extra tanks, etc etc. if I frag off some coral - I just bring it to my LFS for trade value - because I don't want all the expense of shipping, scammers, deaths, etc etc. And - I don't get anywhere near 'market price'.

 

[Asagi]

I think you are missing the point that multiple people disagree with you. Hobbyiests charging retail on the forum may very well be doing so to great even - BTW - Where would you ever get the idea that people doing this from home can do it more cheaply than an LFS? BY the way I've already said I think the prices for some of the corals are ridiculous - both online and in stores

I’m not seeing any livestock sale threads from your account either. Who are you defending? All my sales are fair and below “market” value. That’s what we do for each other.

 

[MnFish1]

The whole industry is just FUBAR with greed today. Other than maybe some clubs "frag swaps" are nothing more than a show you pay admission to and it's just a bunch of vendors big and small. There's no swapping going on. Too many people buying stuff they can't afford think they are going to make big bank off it when chances are they probably kill it anyway. The actual mariculture farms like in Indo have the potential to snuff the so called aquaculture places with nice grown out colonies at reasonable prices. But no... too many of the places buy up all those colonies, chop them up, glue them up and sell fresh frags and call it aquacultured for sometimes more than the whole colony costs. Worse yet people with more money than brains snap up all the stuff and drive the ridiculous faddish naming and pricing. Here in FL with the aquaculture laws and licensing the shops may report you if FF&WL doesn't catch you first selling anything w/o a license. Total monopoly that cuts out the hobbyist. Hence the end of actual frag swaps.

Just curious - do you think Coral prices in California or Florida are likely to be cheaper than coral priced in Kansas? Do you think that an LFS in CA is more or less likely to have access to multiple 'rare' corals? If they are more likely (I think they are) - do you think hobbyists from those areas can get better prices than the ones in Kansas?

 

[MnFish1]

I’m not seeing any livestock sale threads from your account either. Who are you defending? All my sales are fair and below “market” value. That’s what we do for each other.

LOL. - I'm having a discussion - You don't have to go searching through the forums looking for my 'sales' - I already posted that I haven't sold anything on the forums. I have sold plenty of things on Ebay though - equipment - and I always start my listings at a Dollar - and at the end often get higher prices than those with a buy-it now price.

I'm not sure why you seem to have made the 'rule' or 'comment' on multiple peoples responses as to 'you have no sales'. Why do you care vis a vis the original post?

 

[MnFish1]

This thread isn't about businesses. They stated that in the first post.

The thread is about people selling coral online. There are many many people who buy a colony - frag it - and sell the frags - though its not technically 'ABC corals - its not the same as the person who has a super-fast growing xxx coral that he/she trims periodically. Besides a type of 'tulip bulb mania' - some of the more expensive corals perhaps do not grow as fast - thus their frags command a higher price.

 

[MnFish1]

I guess you didn't catch the part about basically illegal w/o an aquaculture license. Florida fish and wildlife not ones to be trifled with. Google it... people have gone to jail. Some of our esteemed local shops have been alleged to have reported people. "All persons engaging in commercial aquaculture are required to obtain the certificate. Aquaculture products include: fish, shellfish, amphibians, reptiles, invertibrates, plants, and corals. The certificate number is required to be on all aquaculture products from harvest to point of sale." Problem is if you sell anything you are commercial. Ask the guy busted for selling his tang on Craigs list. Even "trades" are a gray area for enforcement.

Trades are not a problem - but they are regulated - they are 'barter transactions'. See below: https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/bartering-laws.html

 

[MnFish1]

So, if you’re calling it a ‘business’ … does your state require that you collect and pay taxes on sales and profits?

Yes - and you (if your state has one) are responsible for retrieving and paying the state the sales tax. (at this is the way in my state)

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

I applaud you!… you are doing it right!
I do doubt that there are many more basement businesses that are doing it legally…

It amazes me how many "businesses" out there post they are starting a business, get a facebook business page, put up a website to sell with no tax EIN number, no state license, no tax collection license, NOTHING.

 

[anthonymckay]

I guess you didn't catch the part about basically illegal w/o an aquaculture license. Florida fish and wildlife not ones to be trifled with. Google it... people have gone to jail. Some of our esteemed local shops have been alleged to have reported people. "All persons engaging in commercial aquaculture are required to obtain the certificate. Aquaculture products include: fish, shellfish, amphibians, reptiles, invertibrates, plants, and corals. The certificate number is required to be on all aquaculture products from harvest to point of sale." Problem is if you sell anything you are commercial. Ask the guy busted for selling his tang on Craigs list. Even "trades" are a gray area for enforcement.

You only mentioned "sales" in your initial post and that frag swaps were no longer actual "swaps" anymore, so I was responding to that. If trades are a gray area as well, that's unfortunate.