Say no to deep water fish in our reefs.
- Thread starter The guppy guru
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Cstar_BC
Well-Known Member
this argument - which is what it is - is coming down to semantics .
Life is life.
If I said I was going to keep copepods in a glass box - no one bats an eye - but how many bag of reef pods suffer deaths waiting to be added to your tanks
If i said I was going to keep shrimp in a glass box - no one bats an eye - how many people eat shrimp/feed shrimp/ have a frozen brick of shrimp
If I said I was going to keep fish in a glass box - people wanna know what fish, how big is the box - if I say it’s sardine no one would budge , if I say it’s a peppermint angel fish now we have a problem .
If I said I wanted to keep GSP in a glass box - meh.
This is a personal morals/ethics/values question you need to have with yourself.
There are no experts - only people with experience.
20 years ago the hobby had never heard of RO units and measuring PAR and there were still deaths and successes
20 years from now science may tell us we are doing 80% of things incorrectly.
Who gets to decide who is “experienced” enough to have X fish - would your aquarium live up to this hypothetical checklist ?
This is a ticking match of moral high ground and is not conducive to a hobby meant to include all and be an open place for questions and discussions.
Life is life.
If I said I was going to keep copepods in a glass box - no one bats an eye - but how many bag of reef pods suffer deaths waiting to be added to your tanks
If i said I was going to keep shrimp in a glass box - no one bats an eye - how many people eat shrimp/feed shrimp/ have a frozen brick of shrimp
If I said I was going to keep fish in a glass box - people wanna know what fish, how big is the box - if I say it’s sardine no one would budge , if I say it’s a peppermint angel fish now we have a problem .
If I said I wanted to keep GSP in a glass box - meh.
This is a personal morals/ethics/values question you need to have with yourself.
There are no experts - only people with experience.
20 years ago the hobby had never heard of RO units and measuring PAR and there were still deaths and successes
20 years from now science may tell us we are doing 80% of things incorrectly.
Who gets to decide who is “experienced” enough to have X fish - would your aquarium live up to this hypothetical checklist ?
This is a ticking match of moral high ground and is not conducive to a hobby meant to include all and be an open place for questions and discussions.
ReefPig
Active Member
You're in the wrong hobby if this is the way you feel.
Likewise you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who agrees with you and wants you pushing your morality on us.
Yes, some fish are better suited to tank life, but either way, none of it is natural and they will die in a tank at some point.
You had a tank wipe out, because of your bad practices, now you want to start telling people what fish they can and cannot have in their tank.
Sorry, move along, not interested.
Likewise you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who agrees with you and wants you pushing your morality on us.
Yes, some fish are better suited to tank life, but either way, none of it is natural and they will die in a tank at some point.
You had a tank wipe out, because of your bad practices, now you want to start telling people what fish they can and cannot have in their tank.
Sorry, move along, not interested.
OP
OP
The guppy guru
Active Member
I’m not pushing anything onto you guys surly your all good people with lots of fish and coral. I have fish and coral and I’m fine with other people’s opinions, every time someone posts on a thread that helps the creator because it tells them that you are interested in that topic, that his content is interesting enough for you to type something down on it.
OP
OP
The guppy guru
Active Member
And that’s fine from mistakes comes though. Every time we make a mistake we learn from it, example a handful of years ago acropora was though to be impossible to keep in the hobby. Just go with the flow and all of us will find out something revolutionary in the hobby. Anyways I’ll leave you at what you would like to believe, this is not what all my content is about. This thread was not to stay around for a long time, it was only made to see people’s opinions, you’re all different and have separate opinions and I respect that. In fact my other threads are all about adding new fish into the hobby....... so yeah kinda contradicting myself a little. Well I’ll leave you at it good day and, Happy Reefing.
I think this is coming from the thread where people expressed the opinion that certain brackish water fish had no real place in a reef tank as although they may "survive' in one, they naturally wouldn't be found there.
Now I'd say there is a big different between a fish that has to endure unnatural water chemistry, versus one that might need a little different care in terms of lighting or heating but essentially is used to the chemistry of the tank we wish to keep it in.
I'm not having a go and understand your point but it's always a fine line. It wasn't that long ago that a schoolgirl found lionfish could survive in near freshwater but that doesn't mean people would advocate keeping them with koi or clown loaches.
Now I'd say there is a big different between a fish that has to endure unnatural water chemistry, versus one that might need a little different care in terms of lighting or heating but essentially is used to the chemistry of the tank we wish to keep it in.
I'm not having a go and understand your point but it's always a fine line. It wasn't that long ago that a schoolgirl found lionfish could survive in near freshwater but that doesn't mean people would advocate keeping them with koi or clown loaches.
mkwarner77
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not sure, but I don't think clowns, chromis, zoas and pallies and natural to the state of Ohio
Its the same thought process that dogs were once wild until domesticated. Just because 1 type of breed was made to live with humans doesn't mean that every breed is right for every situation. Would you keep a Giant Tibetan Mastiff in a studio apartment with no yard or anything? Probably not, because there's not enough room for it to have a worth while life.
Same scenario but a tea cup chihuahua, size ratio is more proportional so it would seem it would be better kept in a smaller living situation.
Same could be said about herding dogs or ones with more active roles and needs like Belgian malinois. Their needs are different. Sure, can you keep a hairless cat on a ranch in Alaska. But should you? Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. So yes, its all a matter of opinion but this whole "if you're okay with one fish being kept in a tank then all fish are fine"philosophies just aren't right.
This breaks down the same way because certain fish have different needs than others. If those needs cant easily be met and will have a lack luster life or slowly starve or be forced to live in conditions that aren't the same as what they were in before they were plucked out of the ocean, then it probably should happen.
Same scenario but a tea cup chihuahua, size ratio is more proportional so it would seem it would be better kept in a smaller living situation.
Same could be said about herding dogs or ones with more active roles and needs like Belgian malinois. Their needs are different. Sure, can you keep a hairless cat on a ranch in Alaska. But should you? Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. So yes, its all a matter of opinion but this whole "if you're okay with one fish being kept in a tank then all fish are fine"philosophies just aren't right.
This breaks down the same way because certain fish have different needs than others. If those needs cant easily be met and will have a lack luster life or slowly starve or be forced to live in conditions that aren't the same as what they were in before they were plucked out of the ocean, then it probably should happen.
nvictor
New Member
I am not an expert reefer - and I do agree taking any fish out of its natural habitat is perhaps immoral in some shape or form. However for the rarities or threatened species I would be uncomfortable acquiring them for the home aquarium. (Although I am not sure if this particular group of fish you are referring to is rare or not!)
Thats just my opinion.
Thats just my opinion.
In the big scheme of things our hobby is drop in the ocean...literally...
Not too long ago they pushed hundreds of tons of orange roughy (A deepwater fish) into land fills...now all but one fishery has crashed .... not being dismissive but I wouldn't sweat an occasional swissguard basslet or whatever..
Not too long ago they pushed hundreds of tons of orange roughy (A deepwater fish) into land fills...now all but one fishery has crashed .... not being dismissive but I wouldn't sweat an occasional swissguard basslet or whatever..
OP
OP
The guppy guru
Active Member
I never said that I’m number one, and better than everyone else. I didn’t want people to reply because well this would happen someone who asumes things just by what they see. I just wanted people to see this and think about it is you want to tell me your opinions the invite me into a private conversation, I will then gladly listen to all of your opinions. So Chill out bro, lol.
So what's more morally wrong, taking deeper reef fish and putting them in our aquariums or forcing fresh water fish to live in brackish or saltwater tanks?
Arthacker87
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I think that:
1: if noone posted or said anything then the op might have said "noone cares about fish?!?!?!" Hahah
2: don't post a "don't start counter claim" because as you said, your last post had people talking. Its a forum, opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one.
That all being said it seems like we all agree a good debate so thank you for the conversation!!! I agree like most, be responsible for what you have and know your limits. It socks fish are taken out of reefs and ocean but if we want captive bred animals it has to start there. But all in all its always fun to debate
1: if noone posted or said anything then the op might have said "noone cares about fish?!?!?!" Hahah
2: don't post a "don't start counter claim" because as you said, your last post had people talking. Its a forum, opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one.
That all being said it seems like we all agree a good debate so thank you for the conversation!!! I agree like most, be responsible for what you have and know your limits. It socks fish are taken out of reefs and ocean but if we want captive bred animals it has to start there. But all in all its always fun to debate
OP
OP
The guppy guru
Active Member
You do realize the 3 fish I’m focusing aren’t freshwater fish they’re all brackish water fish the monos and green spotted puffers need to be in full salt as adults, and the mollies tend to do better in low end marine water. I’ve learned from my mistakes and the fish that I’ve chosen are the results of my new intel. I just want to say before you make a claim, you should probably check what you say before you put it out there. And you shouldn’t take things so seriously chill dude.
OP
OP
The guppy guru
Active Member
This is mostly opinion and fact based. I ain’t going to throw out someone else's opinion. Learn to chill out. And I ain’t talking about only deep water fish I listed a deep water fish as a hook and an example. Seriously chill out. If you have an opinion that’s completely fine but don’t try to guilt trip someone, and do more research on the fish I talked about instead of thinking this is all that bad.
OP
OP
The guppy guru
Active Member
To be honest I couldn’t understand much of what you said but what I could understand, I believe NOW, but BZoFQ I think that’s how you spell it, saw what had to happen for me to believe that. Look right now I’m changing my opinions left and right, so people please bare with me for the time being, anywayssssssssssss.... I’ll leave you all to discus this if you want but remember, Happy Reefing.
Copingwithpods
Valuable Member
I'm so confused
OP
OP
The guppy guru
Active Member
To be honest I am to I should just stop trying to ,make threads who here agrees?
Bethany Yates
Community Member
I think that opinions are like fish tanks, everyone here has one and many of them stink. Just kidding, but seriously people love to argue. I feel like you did nothing wrong until you got offended. I thought this was a great point to bring up and hopefully made a lot of people think. We all need to think twice before taking an animal into our homes and it is our jobs to afford that animal the best care possible and to not buy things we can't or shouldn't keep. Not everyone is going to agree but that is the whole point of a forum.
Just keep posting.
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