Say no to deep water fish in our reefs.

[The guppy guru]

Ok so I have a thread and people are questioning it because it’s wrong to bring an animal out of its natural habitat. That’s fin it is wrong to take an animal out of its home..... so then why do we have them in our reefs. I know for a fact that that at least one person has had a fish in their reefs that are from deep waters or from areas where reefs aren’t around. Like currently some places are trying to introduce the peppermint anglefish into the hobby, but why? This is cruel because we’re taking this fish that has not seen our high light and flow corals and aquariums. So please don’t Start a counter claim for this. Just think about that.

 

[AZMSGT]

All the fish in my tank are out of their natural environment. You can’t have one argument with out the other. If a person is keeping fish from minnows to peppermint angels it’s all the same.

 

[tehmadreefer]

Fish don’t belong in houses to begin with, so there’s that...

 

[Angel_Anthias lover]

The Peppermint Angelfish that won the world over | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Despite the Peppermint Angelfish’s (Paracentropyge boylei) recent meteoric debut in the mainstream aquarium trade, it’s status as an iconic book fish has hardly been relinquished.

reefbuilders.com

This person hasnt put a peppermint angel in that type of tank and saying its almost 2 decades old it seems quite happy.
If those people set the tank up specifically for the deep water species i see no issue with it

 

[Cstar_BC]

With everything in this hobby it’s a matter of personal opinion.

either fish can be In aquariums or they can’t. And if you are in the mind that they shouldn’t - then this is the wrong forum .

 

[pcon]

I have deeper reef fish in my reef. After a mild process of light acclimation the fish have no issues with full intensity reef lighting. I think you need to start by checking your facts and assumptions. We are not talking about truly deep abyssal fish but typically mesophotic and occasionally rariphotic fish. These are reef zones of decreased light but not complete darkness as you seem to imply. The actually common issue with “deep water” fish in the hobby is temperature not light, deeper reefs are cooler than common reef temps. A simple issue to address. The majority of marine fish are wild caught and I don’t agree with the generic moral outrage over that. Without mastering the captive care of these species we will not be able to master captive breeding, which can prove instrumental to conservation efforts.

 

[secret_reefer337]

Everything in our tanks are not supposed to be there in the first place so let’s not pretend our morals about this hobby is more than those who choose to keep such animals/ species.
Just saying...

 

[Caseyoidae]

Can’t have your cake and eat it too. Lol

 

[TerraFerma]

Yea firstly - no fish belongs in an aquarium. It's cruel and the mortality of ornamental wild collected fish, between collector/exporter/wholesaler/LFS/incompetent hobbyists, is astounding. I'd guess its 75% or higher. Look at the fish disease forum here.

Keeping fish is a moral trade off. You want to look at them in your tank and have to be comfortable with the blood on your hands from supporting this whole industry/process. If most hobbyists knew about what is involved in all this and the mortality they would probably rethink keeping wild collected fish. There is is also a human cost as worker safety where many common fish are collected is not a high priority.

The mortality of wild collected corals probably isn't nearly as high. But your ripping something off a reef that could otherwise grow and be supportive of any number of ocean life forms. And if you think you are somehow creating an ark because of reef bleaching you are fooling yourself on a number of levels.

99% of deep water fish acclimate fine to reef aquarium conditions if you do it properly. Very often they come to you in better condition that regular fish because they are more difficult to collect and the costs are higher...so more care is taken of them along the supply chain. I'd like to think that people that shell out the money for true deep water fish will go through the proper acclimation and husbandry steps to ensure success. Some deep water fish available in the hobby are not used to tropical temps and to be kept properly would need a colder water tank. But if you look at the last batch of Pep's Steinhart collected the temps at collection depth aren't far off from average reef tank temps. So I guess I would say do your research there.

This hobby is a moral trade off. It is what it is. And at the end of the day more common cheap/mid price fish likely die than more expensive deep water fish.

It is what it is.

 

[The guppy guru]

Yea firstly - no fish belongs in an aquarium. It's cruel and the mortality of ornamental wild collected fish, between collector/exporter/wholesaler/LFS/incompetent hobbyists, is astounding. I'd guess its 75% or higher. Look at the fish disease forum here.

Keeping fish is a moral trade off. You want to look at them in your tank and have to be comfortable with the blood on your hands from supporting this whole industry/process. If most hobbyists knew about what is involved in all this and the mortality they would probably rethink keeping wild collected fish. There is is also a human cost as worker safety where many common fish are collected is not a high priority.

The mortality of wild collected corals probably isn't nearly as high. But your ripping something off a reef that could otherwise grow and be supportive of any number of ocean life forms. And if you think you are somehow creating an ark because of reef bleaching you are fooling yourself on a number of levels.

99% of deep water fish acclimate fine to reef aquarium conditions if you do it properly. Very often they come to you in better condition that regular fish because they are more difficult to collect and the costs are higher...so more care is taken of them along the supply chain. I'd like to think that people that shell out the money for true deep water fish will go through the proper acclimation and husbandry steps to ensure success. Some deep water fish available in the hobby are not used to tropical temps and to be kept properly would need a colder water tank. But if you look at the last batch of Pep's Steinhart collected the temps at collection depth aren't far off from average reef tank temps. So I guess I would say do your research there.

This hobby is a moral trade off. It is what it is. And at the end of the day more common cheap/mid price fish likely die than more expensive deep water fish.

It is what it is.

Thank you! You are the person that I need ok I just needed to say that. Thanks for explaining things though.

 

[cdare99]

I know this might not be a popular opinion but life in a tank might be better than life in the ocean for some. There’s no hunting for food or shelter and sometimes a healthier environment being in a tank. But like others said it’s a moral trade to have this ability to keep these amazing creatures in our tanks. I know I feel guilty when things go south, money isn’t even on my mind at that point.

 

[The guppy guru]

I know this might not be a popular opinion but life in a tank might be better than life in the ocean for some. There’s no hunting for food or shelter and sometimes a healthier environment being in a tank. But like others said it’s a moral trade to have this ability to keep these amazing creatures in our tanks. I know I feel guilty when things go south, money isn’t even on my mind at that point.

Yes I recently had a mass wipe out and I felt heart broken for all the fish and inverts I had lost. The thought that I as a person just killed many creatures that were just minding their own business.

 

[Robert Binz]

Ok so I have a thread and people are questioning it because it’s wrong to bring an animal out of its natural habitat. That’s fin it is wrong to take an animal out of its home..... so then why do we have them in our reefs. I know for a fact that that at least one person has had a fish in their reefs that are from deep waters or from areas where reefs aren’t around. Like currently some places are trying to introduce the peppermint anglefish into the hobby, but why? This is cruel because we’re taking this fish that has not seen our high light and flow corals and aquariums. So please don’t Start a counter claim for this. Just think about that.

I agree that (1) we should strive to give our animals the best lives possible; and (2) some fish are better suited to home aquariums than others.

 

[The guppy guru]

I agree that (1) we should strive to give our animals the best lives possible; and (2) some fish are better suited to home aquariums than others.

Yes this is true but if you plan on making a counter claim let me save you the sweat. Most fish have at this point gotten used to our tanks. But it’s not them I’m worried about, it’s the new comers. Not even new fish in the hobby think fish like moorish idle and the copper banded butterfly fish should stop being imported for the hobby. I mean if we know there going to die then why even let most people get a hand of them. We should leave these fish at the hands of experts only. Anyways that’s all I have to say right now as always, Happy Reefing.

 

[Robert Binz]

Yes this is true but if you plan on making a counter claim let me save you the sweat. Most fish have at this point gotten used to our tanks. But it’s not them I’m worried about, it’s the new comers. Not even new fish in the hobby think fish like moorish idle and the copper banded butterfly fish should stop being imported for the hobby. I mean if we know there going to die then why even let most people get a hand of them. We should leave these fish at the hands of experts only. Anyways that’s all I have to say right now as always, Happy Reefing.

I very clearly did not make a counter argument. Learn to agree lol

 

[The guppy guru]

I very clearly did not make a counter argument. Learn to agree lol

No I was just making sure cause you know we're all human and we like to argue. So I do go along with what people say, but you kinda sounded like you were going to say a , BUT. So you know just preparing my self just Incase. Good luck bro if you need it. Happy Reefing

 

[pcon]

Yes this is true but if you plan on making a counter claim let me save you the sweat. Most fish have at this point gotten used to our tanks. But it’s not them I’m worried about, it’s the new comers. Not even new fish in the hobby think fish like moorish idle and the copper banded butterfly fish should stop being imported for the hobby. I mean if we know there going to die then why even let most people get a hand of them. We should leave these fish at the hands of experts only. Anyways that’s all I have to say right now as always, Happy Reefing.

If these fish are not imported then how are the experts supposed to get ahold of them? I agree people should stick to fish they are capable of handling but again how can we learn to better care for these fish if we do not have them coming in? and if the goal is to ultimately mitigate wild collection how can we have captive breeding efforts without adequate knowledge of how to care for these fish, which can only come from years of people having them in their tanks?

 

[Bethany Yates]

I think this is a really interesting time to be in the hobby because it has become large enough to be subject to more regulation than ever before. By buying fish that inhabit reefs in other parts of the world we are creating livelihoods that rely on keeping reefs healthy and productive. As long as there are regulations and that the communities near reefs understand the ecology of a coral reef and how to protect their income by protecting the reef, it works. This is definitely a good thing.

 

[ScottR]

Every day, millions and millions of fish and inverts are harvested for sale as food. Many of them being deep sea fish. As a hobby I don’t feel bad about taking fish out of the sea and into my tank. I know my limits and I feed them well.

 

[Bryce M.]

This is great an all and everything that has needed to be said has been said but here's my issue
"so please don't start a counter claim"
um? excuse me?
We all have our opinions but there is noting wrong with questioning our beliefs and listening to others ideas and counter is a part of that, it's healthy
we will never grow if we stick at the same ideas never listening to other
and especially wanting others to listen to you

You want us to listen to your ideas but won't listen to ours?
because yours is the number one?
the true right opinion?
Nothing in this world is black and white, there is never a right option in any problem