Screwed up using the TM products, need to figure out to recover

[MMcKenna1029]

So long story short I have been using Plus NP for about 3 months now. My tank almost always showed undetectable Po4 and No3 using hannah checkers. The coloration on my corals was not very good and everything looked pretty pale. That said, the growth in my corals has been great and there has been no nuisance algae in my tank. Others, who did not understand the TM carbon dosing system would say to stop carbon dosing and dose Po4 and No3 directly to get nutrients up. I succumbed to this idea and although I continued dosing Plus NP I started dosing Neophos and Neonitro that I had on hand. Brought the number up to Po4 = .05 and No3 = 5 in about a week. Next thing you know, huge cyano outbreak.... If I could go back I would have never decided to do that and instead maybe slowly introduced some aminos to see if that would help color up.

At this point I have discontinued dosing the Neonitro and neophos and am just back to my daily dosage of Plus NP. My levels dropped back down to undetectable. Unfortunately the Cyano outbreak is still there... My hope is to just get back to where I was a few weeks ago with just the Plus NP. Feels like I had a good thing going and ruined it.

My question is, everyone is saying I have to raise nutrients to get rid of the cyano but things seemed so well balanced with just the Plus NP, how will low nutrients and Plus NP handle a cyano outbreak? I would like to stick to strictly TM methodologies for my nutrients control so what is my best avenue forward to deal with the cyano now present?

Best regards,
Matt

 

[Reef_Curiosity]

I'm sorry to hear you experience cyano problems. They can be annoying for sure!
I use TM products exclusively across my 4 tanks and I have only had minor cyano issues in very new tanks when using TM products.
Before TM though, I had cyano often in the separate tanks. I tried Red Sime Remover once which browned out my acroporas within hours... I will never dose anything designed to kill after this, it just seems silly. Nature and maintenance is my method now.

What I started doing instead, which has worked everytime for me, is dosing extra Nitribiotic and Reef Actif weekly to boost the load of beneficial bacteria. Also coupled with manual removal of the cyano weekly and also I add ocean fresh liverock. I understand this is more readily available in Europe, but biodiversity is key. This is also how I beat dinoflagellates.
I always run my nitrates below 1.0 ppm and PO4 I try to hit 0.05-0.15. So this whole thinking of low nutrients that aren't in a specific ratio causes cyano etc, I don't believe in based on my experience.

After the issue is fixed, Plus-NP is great for coral nutrients. If they are pale still with the maximum dosage, I would either "dose" dry foods until NO3 is 1-2 and PO4 is in range or keep the skimmer off during the day.

Maybe Hans-Werner or Lou has different opinions on this? But it is what I believe in and what works for me.

I hope this helps,
Kind regards,
Samuel

 

[Hans-Werner]

Thanks for your feedback, Matt!

Our Plus-NP and other Tropic Marin products are designed to avoid nutrient adsorption to rock and substrate and to supply nutrients as continuous and even as possible.

Adding "simple" phosphate additives will add peaks of orthophosphate that readily adsorbs to rocks and substates and in my opinion is the main reason for cyanobacteria growth. After it has happened it will need at least some weeks of patience until the adsorbed phosphate is released and taken up by (cyano) bacteria and the nutrients are balanced again. The shorter the period of orthophosphate supply the shorter the period of "recovery".

Pale colors may indicate some kind of nutrient limitation. This must not necessarily be a macronutrient, also a micronutrient (= trace element) in short supply may cause pale colors.

I don't know your trace element supply at the moment. If you aren't dosing trace elements already I recommend to start dosing K+ and A- Elements or All-For-Reef for better and deeper colors. An ICP analysis may be helpful to clarify if iodine or some other trace element is in short supply.

After this is made sure or excluded respectively, I would try to improve colors with macronutrients like aminos.

 

[MMcKenna1029]

Samuel,

Thank you for the feedback. I did start adding some additional bacteria. Not TM products, just whatever I could get in local LFS. I would be very willing to order the correct TM product. I don't have much experience with the slime removers but like you would prefer to handle this as naturally as possible.

Super happy with Plus-NP, just ordered 2 more bottles

One change I did make last night after I posted was to take the collection cup off my skimmer and turn it up so it just overflows. I would prefer to keep it running for PH benefits but hopefully this helps by not skimming out beneficial bacteria being adding and keeping some as much nutrients int he system as possible.

Best regards,
Matt

 

[MMcKenna1029]

Hans-Werner,

Thank you for your response!

This makes lots of sense:
Adding "simple" phosphate additives will add peaks of orthophosphate that readily adsorbs to rocks and substates and in my opinion is the main reason for cyanobacteria growth. After it has happened it will need at least some weeks of patience until the adsorbed phosphate is released and taken up by (cyano) bacteria and the nutrients are balanced again. The shorter the period of orthophosphate supply the shorter the period of "recovery".

Since the Plus-NP targets mainly the coral is it okay to continue dosing while the cyano dissipates?

Also, would you mind giving me your thoughts on the right products to help maintain a healthy bacteria population to go along with my low nutrient scenario and use of Plus-NP?

Best regards,
Matt

 

[Hans-Werner]

Since the Plus-NP targets mainly the coral is it okay to continue dosing while the cyano dissipates?

Yes, I think Plus-NP will help balancing the nutrients.

Also, would you mind giving me your thoughts on the right products to help maintain a healthy bacteria population to go along with my low nutrient scenario and use of Plus-NP?

Although I like the probiotic approach very much, also in my personal care, in reef aquaria I like the prebiotic approach even more: Feed the beneficial bacteria that are already in the tank and the organisms inhabiting it. The advantage of this approach is that it feeds also the good bacteria that are not available as a product but can only be introduced with life rock, corals, fish, snails, crabs etc. we add. For this I recommend Reef Actif or the Bio-Actif or Syn-Biotic salts.

 

[MMcKenna1029]

Yes, I think Plus-NP will help balancing the nutrients.

Although I like the probiotic approach very much, also in my personal care, in reef aquaria I like the prebiotic approach even more: Feed the beneficial bacteria that are already in the tank and the organisms inhabiting it. The advantage of this approach is that it feeds also the good bacteria that are not available as a product but can only be introduced with life rock, corals, fish, snails, crabs etc. we add. For this I recommend Reef Actif or the Bio-Actif or Syn-Biotic salts.

Thank you! I will look into those products.

Best regards,
Matt

 

[MMcKenna1029]

@Hans-Werner I just ordered reef actif but I do want to double check, from the small amount of information I was able to find on it this sounds like additional carbon dosing so it is okay to use this in conjunction with plus-NP while I am in a low nutrient state? Or should I wait until Po4 levels are higher?

Thanks,
Matt