Hydrored

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That's good to know about the AF products.

I just cleaned out my salt water mixing station. This is what it looked like after 2 years of TM Pro.

9F49F586-C2B5-49F1-AC2B-595C1BCFDF96_1_105_c.jpeg

Yep! All started late last year, especially with the black crap. AF mixes cleaner than that and I think it’s dirtier than the old TM pro from the good days. I don’t care what they say, it changed.
 
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ScottB

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That's good to know about the AF products.

I just cleaned out my salt water mixing station. This is what it looked like after 2 years of TM Pro.

9F49F586-C2B5-49F1-AC2B-595C1BCFDF96_1_105_c.jpeg
My IORC 44G mixing Brute puts that stain to shame. I try to clean it up every couple of years.

WRT you prior post about carbon dosing. I did it for a while. Somewhere on the margins it would put me into a cyano situation. Nothing crazy, but annoying. My best guess "why" was that it processes nitrate much faster than phosphates and I would get a little out of whack.
 
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My IORC 44G mixing Brute puts that stain to shame. I try to clean it up every couple of years.

WRT you prior post about carbon dosing. I did it for a while. Somewhere on the margins it would put me into a cyano situation. Nothing crazy, but annoying. My best guess "why" was that it processes nitrate much faster than phosphates and I would get a little out of whack.

Good to know your experience with the carbon dosing. That's an interesting observation about the cyano. I may just continue with what I've been doing since it's worked for the system (most of the time). Since I don't have experience carbon dosing, a little curious if there's a role for it with the system. Sometimes fun to try new things.

After the single 20% water change, I've observed calcium and alkalinity consumption have both gone up. The clams and elegance corals have most obviously perked up. The pH is now peaking at 8.45 which I'm equating with either increased photosynthesis or an uncalibrated probe which I plan to check this weekend. I did re-check the nitrates and phosphates and down to 0.11 for the phosphates and nitrates are down to 11-12.
In this instance, something was building up in the water that the water change really helped. I'm going to do one more 10-20% water change at a 2 week interval.
 
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Since May, I had noticed patches of brown developing on the sandbed. This would be best in the morning and would progressively worsen with the lights. I now know that somehow I ended up encouraging the growth of dinos. Seeing all the posts dedicated to this, I suppose I felt left out, so now I get to figure out how to get the system back on track from this issue. :rolleyes:

I feel most often I recognize issues early and can right things before they become a problem. Not so in this case as I didn't recognize what I had going on. My phosphates never went below 0.1 and my nitrates have averaged 15, so I didn't think the system was prone to dinos after a year and a half.

In hindsight, I did several things that probably made the problem worse.
1. I chemicleaned the system due to a bacterial infection affecting a few of my acro colonies that were otherwise healthy, almost brown jelly like
2. A couple larger water changes including vacuuming the sand bed over the course of a couple of water changes further disrupting the sand's microbiome
3. GFO/ Lanthanum chloride

A6A4688C-6E8D-4D84-96CB-F1FCFCFC7CD4_1_105_c.jpeg


Here are some images and video from today. I believe these are Large cell amphidinium. Agree?

@ScottB thank you for your dinos article, it really helped consolidate a tremendous amount of info into a much more succinct and useable format.
8C8AA720-30F5-4086-A335-91D2793CB386_1_105_c.jpeg



Prior to getting a microscope to diagnose these, I did a 3 day black out earlier this week. Not the right treatment for this type of dino from what I've read, but it did seem to lessen the problem a bit, and I suspect I may have had more than one type of dino. I did have some fuzz on some of the rocks that has resolved post- black out. I do feel like the dinos have had some toxicity. My snails have died off and my pair of ruby red dragonettes abruptly stopped eating got listless and perished. I'm attributing this to the dinos, but could be something else. The blue jaw trigger may certainly have feasted on the snails as well.

For the dinos, I continue running a UV (not the most helpful for this species). Nitrates are currently 18 and phosphates 0.13. I've ordered Brightwell SpongeExcel (silica) and will start dosing. I feel the pod population took a hit as well somehow and I've placed an order for some pods and phyto. Also another order of live mud and going to try PNS substrate sauce. Hopefully, I can get past this in the next couple months. Any experience or thoughts are appreciated.
 
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ScottB

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LC Amphids I certainly see. Admit some surprise given your stability and nutrient numbers. That said, Chemiclean is clearly a trigger. It seems to kill something that competes with otherwise marginal dino populations. Some kind of bacterial population (cyano?) that keeps dinos in check. All (mature) tanks have a huge range of microorganisms that seem to keep a low level battle ongoing which is okay and and natural. Until something really shifts the battlefield. Glad you found my thread but LC Amphids aren't the easiest to solve for quickly. Coral damage SHOULD be limited as they lack the most toxic properties. Tagging @taricha as my mentor on all this.

Slow and steady wins this race. Sorry you had the livestock losses already. You have a beautiful system. Just keep things as nominal as possible for a good while. Think about getting it back to pre-Chemiclean (pro cyano?) status slowly and work slowly out from there.

Dosing silicates is a fine and safe first step.
 
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Check the 2nd last article posted on this site. Maybe it can help you.

Thank you, I was contemplating carbon dosing, and in the article you recommended they suggest it could be helpful. One major limitation of that particular series, is the lack of any dino ID. Nevertheless, I suspect chasing the phosphate number, may have contributed to some of the imbalance in my microbiome and perhaps carbon dosing may be a more consistent approach.

LC Amphids I certainly see. Admit some surprise given your stability and nutrient numbers. That said, Chemiclean is clearly a trigger. It seems to kill something that competes with otherwise marginal dino populations. Some kind of bacterial population (cyano?) that keeps dinos in check. All (mature) tanks have a huge range of microorganisms that seem to keep a low level battle ongoing which is okay and and natural. Until something really shifts the battlefield. Glad you found my thread but LC Amphids aren't the easiest to solve for quickly. Coral damage SHOULD be limited as they lack the most toxic properties. Tagging @taricha as my mentor on all this.

Slow and steady wins this race. Sorry you had the livestock losses already. You have a beautiful system. Just keep things as nominal as possible for a good while. Think about getting it back to pre-Chemiclean (pro cyano?) status slowly and work slowly out from there.

Dosing silicates is a fine and safe first step.

Thanks, I'll go slow. Most people still think the tank looks nice. Unfortunately, it is a shadow of it where it was. Hopefully, with some patience, I'll bring it back.
 
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As if the dinos were not enough, I've been out of town for a couple weeks and returned to a tank of brown acros with poor polyp extension. I don't believe this is all due to the dinos, as they were present before the brown out. I sent an ICP and the results are below. I did lose a couple of acros, but so far haven't lost too many, just everything is unhappy. I was surprised to lose my setosa.

In summary
Salt 34.3 PSU
Alk 8
Ca 440
Mg 1343
NO3 18
PO4. 0.13

Iodine and Manganese were deficient per usual. There were a couple of surprises though
1. Somehow there is aluminum in the system. I have not used any ceramic media, so the source is unclear to me.

@GBRsouth suggested the fans as a possible source. I do have an external fan situated on top of the tank that I use for cooling this time of year. It is situated right above the setosa, so that's an interesting thought. Any other thoughts on sources to consider?

2. The fluorine is low. This is an abrupt change and I can attribute it to either a testing error or to salt. I performed a couple of larger water changes in July and this corresponded to when a large number of the corals started looking unhappy. Just to be safe, I'm using a different bucket of salt now. I've repleted the Fluorine.

I have changed the carbon and am running ROX 0.8. I added a poly filter. I continue to run rowaphos and have read that it can help remove aluminum. I have repleted the fluoride, iodine, and manganese and plan to send a new ICP. Otherwise, I think I'm going to have to be patient and keep things stable.


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ScottB

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There is a time/place for carbon dosing. I just haven't figured it out on my system. It hammers nitrates and allows PO4 to run IME. Which leads to excess cyano. To read your next update now..
 
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As if the dinos were not enough, I've been out of town for a couple weeks and returned to a tank of brown acros with poor polyp extension. I don't believe this is all due to the dinos, as they were present before the brown out. I sent an ICP and the results are below. I did lose a couple of acros, but so far haven't lost too many, just everything is unhappy. I was surprised to lose my setosa.

In summary
Salt 34.3 PSU
Alk 8
Ca 440
Mg 1343
NO3 18
PO4. 0.13

Iodine and Manganese were deficient per usual. There were a couple of surprises though
1. Somehow there is aluminum in the system. I have not used any ceramic media, so the source is unclear to me.

@GBRsouth suggested the fans as a possible source. I do have an external fan situated on top of the tank that I use for cooling this time of year. It is situated right above the setosa, so that's an interesting thought. Any other thoughts on sources to consider?

2. The fluorine is low. This is an abrupt change and I can attribute it to either a testing error or to salt. I performed a couple of larger water changes in July and this corresponded to when a large number of the corals started looking unhappy. Just to be safe, I'm using a different bucket of salt now. I've repleted the Fluorine.

I have changed the carbon and am running ROX 0.8. I added a poly filter. I continue to run rowaphos and have read that it can help remove aluminum. I have repleted the fluoride, iodine, and manganese and plan to send a new ICP. Otherwise, I think I'm going to have to be patient and keep things stable.


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1659917290881.png
Got nothing. Similar to my results when things were good and when things not so good.

You are okay on pest results from dipping, yes? Hate to ask but ticking boxes.
 

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@GBRsouth suggested the fans as a possible source. I do have an external fan situated on top of the tank that I use for cooling this time of year. It is situated right above the setosa, so that's an interesting thought. Any other thoughts on sources to consider?

Thought of another possibility. If you use under arm anti-perspirant spray and get your arms wet in the tank working on it, some of the anti-perspirant spray may get into the tank. The drying agent in many of those sprays is aluminium powder.
 

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Wow, your Reef matured very quickly, I am starting to see a trend in large LPS colonies helping speed up the process. Its kind of shocking to me your having dino problems this far in but I would try your chances with a natural means. I had good success wiping them out with a large turkey baster and UV filter. I guess you just have to go to war with them! Good luck
 
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Got nothing. Similar to my results when things were good and when things not so good.

You are okay on pest results from dipping, yes? Hate to ask but ticking boxes.

LOL, me neither. It's pretty annoying because I don't think I've changed anything. That being said, something is clearly going on.

Thank you for suggesting the dip. That's a good thought. Fortunately, no pests.

Thought of another possibility. If you use under arm anti-perspirant spray and get your arms wet in the tank working on it, some of the anti-perspirant spray may get into the tank. The drying agent in many of those sprays is aluminium powder.

This is a good thought. I don't think it's my antiperspirant which is aluminum based, but this led me to look at my sunblock which is also aluminum based. I try to rarely have my hands in the tank and usually wash my hands before doing anything. I don't recall sticking my hands in after using sunblock, but it's another consideration.

Wow, your Reef matured very quickly, I am starting to see a trend in large LPS colonies helping speed up the process. Its kind of shocking to me your having dino problems this far in but I would try your chances with a natural means. I had good success wiping them out with a large turkey baster and UV filter. I guess you just have to go to war with them! Good luck

Thanks, I'll try to be patient and hopefully can get things back on track soon.
 

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Ur already running Rox. Guess you have a Polyfilter in there as well?

I am getting some weird brown-outs the past couple weeks as well. Look dry. Then fade to a drap green/brown. Then dead. Same numbers I have been running for ages. Sent a ATI ICP out.

Only thing "different" is pH is tracking lower with the house closed up and guests around. IDK.
 
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Ur already running Rox. Guess you have a Polyfilter in there as well?

I am getting some weird brown-outs the past couple weeks as well. Look dry. Then fade to a drap green/brown. Then dead. Same numbers I have been running for ages. Sent a ATI ICP out.

Only thing "different" is pH is tracking lower with the house closed up and guests around. IDK.

Yes, running Rox. I have it in a reactor and usually change once / month, but was planning on changing once every two weeks for now. I ran two poly filters. I don't know if it helps, but don't believe it hurts. I've never seen it change colors other than brown though.

The pH has remained stable up until I performed the black out. Currently ranging 8-8.3, normally runs around 8.1-8.4. I slowly reintroduced the halide photoperiod after the black out in an effort to minimize any added stress related to the steps I've been taking.

I'm sorry to hear about your weird brown outs too. I'm going to send another ICP test next week as well. I want to confirm the parameters I adjusted are in a good range now. Not sure if the aluminum is related to what I'm seeing in the corals, but I decided to perform another water change. I'd like to confirm the aluminum value going down.
 
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A few things i did that helped me get rid of dinos:
*microbubble scrubbing for about 15minutes each evening, combined with a powerfilter in the display tank during and after the scrubbing for about half an hour total. During the scrubbing i would also blast of the dinos where possible. This leads them to float to the surface of the tank.
*One hour after the scrubbing i would turn of the skimmer and use Fauna marin rebiotic, i turned on my skimmer again the next morning

I couldn't believe it, but it took me one week of doing this each evening and they were gone.
 
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A few things i did that helped me get rid of dinos:
*microbubble scrubbing for about 15minutes each evening, combined with a powerfilter in the display tank during and after the scrubbing for about half an hour total. During the scrubbing i would also blast of the dinos where possible. This leads them to float to the surface of the tank.
*One hour after the scrubbing i would turn of the skimmer and use Fauna marin rebiotic, i turned on my skimmer again the next morning

I couldn't believe it, but it took me one week of doing this each evening and they were gone.

Thanks, that would be great if I could beat them in a week, I am not counting on it though.

Do you know what type of dinos you had? Also what kind of filter are you referring to as a power filter that you used during the bubble scrubbing? Thanks
 
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