Seeding a new 220g setup

[foxt]

I'm interested in using your products to seed a new 220g setup. What I have:

- 220g tank
- 120g of water in a 180g tank used as a sump
- live rock / sand to kick start the cycle

What would you recommend in terms of type and quantity of pods / phyto products, and how would you add them? Also, I've dosed "dead" phyto before, and I've had success in maintaining a healthy pod population while at the same time keeping phosphates in check. I am wondering:
- is it really possible to keep a culture of live phyto in the tank without throwing my water parameters off? In the past, if I got carried away with "dead" phyto, I would see phosphates climb - why won't that happen with live phyto?
- what feeds the phyto

I have never cultured phyto, but from what I have read / seen (at my LFS), the conditions required to keep the phyto alive seem counter to what we strive for in our display tanks (phyto cultures always look green, don't they?).

Tom

 

[foxt]

No replies to email or forum post ... must be too busy counting out 5280 pods for each of those packages?

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Hi,

Sorry for the delay in responding, we have been at RAP Orlando all weekend and just getting back to the office now. We responded via email but we will also respond here so that others can benefit from the explanation too.

-We would recommend our 44,000+ 5280 Pods three species mix and 64oz OceanMagik Live Phytoplankton to seed this tank and keep the pods fed. It is very important to keep the pods fed, especially in a new tank where there is not a lot of nuisance algae, detritus, fish waste, or leftover fish food for them to feed on. What you do not want to happen is that you add a lot of pods to a new tank and then many of them die off because there is not enough food present to support that size of a population. The phyto helps prevent this by providing a complete food source for the copepods.

- You can add them to the tank by first making sure they are at tank temperature, floating the sealed bag in tank water for 10-15 minutes will accomplish this. Feed your fish a good meal the day you are going to add them and then wait for the lights to go off. Turn all filtration and pumps off and add 1/2 to the refugium and 1/2 to the display tank. The entire amount should be added all at once. Leave the pumps off for 20-25 minutes after adding them to give the pods time to get their bearings and find their way into your rocks, macro, sponges, etc where they will want to live and reproduce. Once settled, pods are very good at staying where they want to be as they are used to navigating the strong currents of the ocean.

- Now lets talk about algae: There are three main categories of Algae most hobbyists are familiar with and they all function in similar but slightly different ways.

These three general categories are:
1. Nuisance algae: Most algae species in this category need nitrate, phosphate, and light among other things in order to grow. Usually these tend to show up when our tanks have nitrate and phosphate present. These nutrients in combination with a consistent photon energy source (light) satisfy the major necessities needed for algae growth. In general, Algae species found in this category are generally bound to some type of substrate (rock, glass, sand, etc) and are visible to the naked eye, making them unpleasant to look at and therefore undesirable to the aquarist. However, it is important to understand that from an ecological perspective nuisance algae is actually helping to balance your ecosystem by consuming excess nitrate and phosphate present in that environment. Because it is ugly, we want to keep it out of our tanks and in order to achieve this we can use other types of more desirable algae to serve the same purpose of removing excess nitrate and phosphate from our aquarium ecosystem. The one you are probably most familiar with is what we commonly refer to as macro algae. Macro meaning "large" meaning we can see it without needing magnification.

2. Macro Algae: Just like nuisance algae, macro algae needs nitrate, phosphate and light among other things to grow and reproduce. By introducing a macro algae species into our ecosystem we are essentially introducing a competitor for the nuisance algae since both species need the same general resources to survive and reproduce. More competition means less food for each species and in a closed ecosystem like a fish tank it also means that the species that is able to most efficiently acquire those resources has competitive advantage and a good chance of out-competing the other species causing them to either grow much more slowly or die off completely. Macro algae gains a competitive advantage in an aquarium for a couple reasons in that they are usually very fast growing and hardy species and because we generally tend to want it there so we are not trying to remove it completely any time we see some like we are with most nuisance algae. In fact, we usually put macro algae in its own "refuge" in our refugiums where it cannot be eaten by fish, etc. which gives it an even bigger advantage. By encouraging the growth of macro algae and actively discouraging the growth of nuisance algae we can essentially guide our ecosystem into containing more of the algae species we want and less of the ones we dont. Our macro algae grows by taking up nitrate and phosphate from our water in order to drive metabolic processes needed for it to stay alive and reproduce. When we have too much macro algae growth, we simply remove some of it from the system. By removing new macro algae growth we are also removing all of the nitrate and phosphate molecules contained within that algae. This technique is commonly called nutrient export because you are using the macro algae as a vehicle to export the nitrate and phosphate from your system. The term macro can be loosely defined to mean "large" and a practical definition for this scenario is that it simply means we can see each algae cell without magnification. While being larger has it's advantages, it also means that these types algae tend to be less mobile and have less surface area per cell than a microscopic-algae like Phytoplankton.

3. Phytoplankton: Phytoplankton is a microscopic algae, and that is a big part of why we are called "AlgaeBarn". Many people associate algae in an aquarium with negative things like an ugly tank or an out of balance ecosystem, however as discussed above algae plays an essential and critical role in almost every aquatic ecosystem and certain species of algae can actually be very helpful to us as aquarists. If we had no algae in an ecosystem we would have to rely entirely on other methods of exporting these nutrients from our systems. These would be things like water changes, chemical media resins, carbon dosing, etc.. all of which are also effective ways of removing excess nitrate and phosphate from aquariums but no matter how hard we try it seems that some type of algae will always be present. So if we are going to have algae in our tanks we minds well do what we can to encourage the presence of the good algae (phyto and macro) so that the nuisance cannot take over and ruin the aesthetics of our tank. Phytoplankton gains a competitive advantage over the other two categories of algae in that it's cells are microscopic and free floating. This means phytoplankton can remain suspended in the water column which is also where the nitrate and phosphate molecules are. If you and I were both trying to swat as many flies in a room as possible but you had to remain seated in a chair while I was allowed to run around the room randomly, chances are that I would have a much better chance of successfully swatting more flies than you because I am mobile. The same concept applies here when comparing phytoplankton to other types of algae when it comes to nutrient uptake. Another advantageous characteristic (for the aquarist) of phytoplankton compared to other algae species is that it is small enough to easily be consumed by things like copepods, LPS and NPS corals, and other filter feeding invertebrates, all of which are commonly found in our aquariums. So, we add live phyto into our systems every day or every couple of days, it begins swirling around the water column photosynthesizing under our lights and absorbing nitrate and phosphate molecules as it comes in contact with them, until it is grabbed and consumed by a coral, a copepod, a clam, or anything else that wants to eat it. Phytoplankton is an extremely nutritious food for all of these organisms and consuming allows them to survive, grow, and reproduce. On average only about 10% of food that is broadcast fed to a tank is consumed immediately, leaving the remaining 90% in the water column to circulate until it is either consumed or removed by filtration equipment. Any LIVE phytoplankton molecules that are not immediately consumed will continue bumping around randomly absorbing nitrate and phosphate molecules from the water column until they are consumed or removed by the filtration. If you were to broadcast feed with a "dead" or preserved phytoplankton product, that remaining 90% can only begin to decompose until it is eaten or removed and all of this leftover decomposing organic matter is what contributes to poor water quality.

I want to be clear that I am not saying that our product will remove all nitrate and phosphate from your system, that more is always better, or that you cannot overdose our product and cause water quality issues with it because you can! What I am saying is that dosing a live phytoplankton product compared to a "dead" or preserved product has many advantages. It is up to the individual aquarist to understand their tank and dose the appropriate amount for their unique system, our bottle comes with a very conservative starter dosage to get people used to using it and then we encourage them to adjust up or down from there as they see fit. Do you have one coral or one thousand corals? That makes a big difference as to how much phytoplankton is appropriate for your tank. Even though our product is called OceanMagik, there is no magical fix all solution and there is no substitute for taking the time to do your own research so you can begin to understand how your ecosystem is working.

Ive found that if I simply follow the nutrients through my ecosystem I can usually find the answer to most common problems. On my own tank, i've found that as my corals, clams, and pod populations continue to grow and as they become trained to expect the phytoplankton on a daily basis I can gradually dose more and more as time goes on, but that is just my own personal experience and this strategy may not apply to everyone. Im sure eventually there will come a time when dosing more is no longer beneficial and when I see my water parameters start to deteriorate I will reduce my dosage until I find the ideal amount for my tank. Eventually, I will have an ideal dosage amount that is just right for my tank. Hopefully this more in-depth response helps clear up some of the confusion and provides a good explanation as how how our products work to help complete your ecosystem. Please let me know if you have questions, thank you!

Lan

 

[foxt]

Thanks for the response!

We recommend our 44,000+ Pods and 1gallon of phyto for a system this large.

Add all 44K at once, or slowly over time? If I add them all at once, I am wondering what happens to those 44K pods, since I don't have a tone of life to eat them yet - will I be dosing enough phyto to keep them alive? Or will they just die off?

Live phyto is a food and is consumed by your tank quickly after being added. It being live means it is not immediately decomposing into nitrate and phosphate unlike the other products you mentioned before.

When you say it is consumed quickly, is that by the pods?

So before it is eaten or removed via the skimmer, etc it is growing under your lights.

If it grows, what is it consuming?

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Thanks for the response!

Add all 44K at once, or slowly over time? If I add them all at once, I am wondering what happens to those 44K pods, since I don't have a tone of life to eat them yet - will I be dosing enough phyto to keep them alive? Or will they just die off?

When you say it is consumed quickly, is that by the pods?

If it grows, what is it consuming?

1. Add them all at once when the lights are off, ideally 1/2 in display and 1/2 in sump. Leave pumps off for 20-25 after dosing to let them settle in. If you keep them fed they will continue to live and reproduce in the tank. it is ideal to establish a large population in the tank before adding any fish (predators)

2. Pods, NPS, LPS coral, Filter feeding inverts (clams)

3. Nitrate and phosphate primarily

Ive also updated my original response to be much more in depth. I hope many will find it helpful when thinking about algae in their tanks and how our products fit in to their ecosystems.

 

[foxt]

Ive also updated my original response to be much more in depth. I hope many will find it helpful when thinking about algae in their tanks and how our products fit in to their ecosystems.

Wow, there's a lot there - thanks for that!

 

[moseley75]

No replies to email or forum post ... must be too busy counting out 5280 pods for each of those packages?

I've noticed they take quite a while to respond to emails that are posted on their website, if they do at all. Was planing on using the subscription service but their new.customer service is lacking. I'm no longer sure I want.to use their products.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

I've noticed they take quite a while to respond to emails that are posted on their website, if they do at all. Was planing on using the subscription service but their new.customer service is lacking. I'm no longer sure I want.to use their products.

Hi there. We are available 10am-6pm M-F via live chat on every page of our website www.algaebarn.com where you can talk to one of our team live in real time. You can also contact us anytime at www.algaebarn.com/contact-us or via email at [email protected], or [email protected]. We are available to help customers on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @AlgaeBarn. We are also available by phone and text during business hours at 772-444-PODS (7637). Company policy is to respond to all requests in under 24 hours and we are usually much faster, like in this case. Every now and then something slips through the cracks but when it is brought to our attention, we go out of our way to give it extra attention to show that we are truly sorry- this thread serves as a great example of that. We are always working to get better in every aspect of our business and we will continue to do so. Thank you for the feedback.

 

[Reef man 89]

I've noticed they take quite a while to respond to emails that are posted on their website, if they do at all. Was planing on using the subscription service but their new.customer service is lacking. I'm no longer sure I want.to use their products.

That's strange for that to happen. I have email them myself on several different occasions asking questions and most of the time I got a response the same day depending on what time it was. If not I would hear back the next day. I myself have ordered from then 3-4 times and have always been happy with everything. I hope everything works out for you.

 

[moseley75]

I've sent several emails and haven't gotten one response. While I believe one may "slip through the cracks." I've sent more than one and no response to any.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

I've sent several emails and haven't gotten one response. While I believe one may "slip through the cracks." I've sent more than one and no response to any.

Im happy to look into this for you. Could you please private message us your name and the email address that you used to submit the tickets? Thank you!