Seeking Guidance for removal of Silicon and Vanadium; Nickel and Zinc may be too high as well

[Marinexx]

We were using TMPR Salt and had been having a rough time with fish and coral. I sent my first ICP_OES to ATI and received rather good results but some issues with a few items I would like some guidance. In particular, the following top two are clearly too high, while the bottom two are moving in the wrong direction:
Silicon 2116 micrograms/L

Vanadium 134.9 micrograms/L

Zinc 16.54 micrograms/L; and

Nickel 7.68 micrograms/L.

This is a 75G mixed reef tank with sump up about 4 years that is just starting to move out of the ugly phase. I did a Brightwell NO3 block to reduce nitrates and have dosed Phosphate E to lower phosphates with some success. It was started by my nephew until my recent arrival. I do not understand the high Silicon or Vanadium. Some posts related to both being high may be related to black substrate, which he chose Carib Sea Arag-alive when he set up the tank, which is the current substrate. I remain uncertain whether this could be the culprit; however, such a long standing cause may offer a reasonable explanation for the tank never really progressing.

Any suggestions on how to proceed on lowering the Silicon and Vanadium? Just an FYI, the RO/DI sample was unremarkable - null.

 

[T-J]

Have you tested your RODI water for sillicates?

 

[Marinexx]

If your asking whether there was any Silicon in the RO / DI sample, the answer is there was none detected

 

[Dan_P]

We were using TMPR Salt and had been having a rough time with fish and coral. I sent my first ICP_OES to ATI and received rather good results but some issues with a few items I would like some guidance. In particular, the following top two are clearly too high, while the bottom two are moving in the wrong direction:
Silicon 2116 micrograms/L

Vanadium 134.9 micrograms/L

Zinc 16.54 micrograms/L; and

Nickel 7.68 micrograms/L.

This is a 75G mixed reef tank with sump up about 4 years that is just starting to move out of the ugly phase. I did a Brightwell NO3 block to reduce nitrates and have dosed Phosphate E to lower phosphates with some success. It was started by my nephew until my recent arrival. I do not understand the high Silicon or Vanadium. Some posts related to both being high may be related to black substrate, which he chose Carib Sea Arag-alive when he set up the tank, which is the current substrate. I remain uncertain whether this could be the culprit; however, such a long standing cause may offer a reasonable explanation for the tank never really progressing.

Any suggestions on how to proceed on lowering the Silicon and Vanadium? Just an FYI, the RO/DI sample was unremarkable - null.

Four years in the ugly phase is probably not explained by these ICP results.

 

[Marinexx]

I certainly hope not, I have been working rather diligently to move the system forward for the past 6 months.
Any suggestions on how to deal with the Vanadium or Silicon issue?
What might be causing the Nickel and Zinc to rise? Do I need to be concerned?

 

[Dan_P]

I certainly hope not, I have been working rather diligently to move the system forward for the past 6 months.
Any suggestions on how to deal with the Vanadium or Silicon issue?
What might be causing the Nickel and Zinc to rise? Do I need to be concerned?

For starters, get a second ICP. ICP results can be highly variable. No point in trying to fix a problem that doesn’t exist.

What is being dosed to the tank? How many water changes and size have you done since taking over maintenance?

As for ICP values for RODI, I sent samples deliberately spiked with aquarium water and all but one vendor found nothing.

 

[Marinexx]

I appreciate the help, thanks Dan.

the fact that I try to keep 2 ways / tests/ methods to measure important parameters that I check regularly, it doesn’t hurt to seek verification for ICP test results either especially since this is my first such test. I did just ask ATI to verify the RO results since everything tested was undetectable - not sure what they will do.

I religiously perform a !5-20% water change weekly. I have also just added a continuous 10 G water change using a DOS pump hoping to ensure trace elements are replenished…uncertain whether it is helping since trace elements seem to be lacking..

As for dosing, I am not a fan; however, I have used products to correct nutrient issues that had not responded to more conservative approaches. For example, Nitrates and Phosphates remained high despite water changes, monitoring food sources, moving towards frozen away from flakes, adding a 6 stage RO / DI etc. I did add BW export dimpled brick NO3 to reduce nitrates - after 2 months it may be starting to work but I have also dosed with Dr. Tim’s waste away, which seemed to work faster but not for long requiring weekly doses. Last 2 weeks of tests have resulted in low nitrates which may support the possibility that the brick is actually beginning to work.

I did use BW Phospate E over 2 weeks with some success. I am hoping to keep phosphates in this lower range with the export brick and algae growth in refugium. I feel compelled to add that I am growing nuisance algae in refugium since I have failed thrice to grow Chaeto and Algae barn hasn’t had any for sale since before Xmas.

I do add about 0.5 mL Iodine weekly for shrimp and crabs. I do add Red Sea Energy Plus AB+ 2-3 times a week (4mL) for frags of Zoa, lps, and sps.

Trying to understand the Vanadium since it’s nearly 100 times more than ‘ideal value’ and over the uk marine concentration Of 100 cited as likely ok for some inhabitants and no the case for more sensitive creatures. I don’t understand the silicon and suspect the nickel and zinc are moving in wrong direction.

 

[Dan_P]

I appreciate the help, thanks Dan.

the fact that I try to keep 2 ways / tests/ methods to measure important parameters that I check regularly, it doesn’t hurt to seek verification for ICP test results either especially since this is my first such test. I did just ask ATI to verify the RO results since everything tested was undetectable - not sure what they will do.

I religiously perform a !5-20% water change weekly. I have also just added a continuous 10 G water change using a DOS pump hoping to ensure trace elements are replenished…uncertain whether it is helping since trace elements seem to be lacking..

As for dosing, I am not a fan; however, I have used products to correct nutrient issues that had not responded to more conservative approaches. For example, Nitrates and Phosphates remained high despite water changes, monitoring food sources, moving towards frozen away from flakes, adding a 6 stage RO / DI etc. I did add BW export dimpled brick NO3 to reduce nitrates - after 2 months it may be starting to work but I have also dosed with Dr. Tim’s waste away, which seemed to work faster but not for long requiring weekly doses. Last 2 weeks of tests have resulted in low nitrates which may support the possibility that the brick is actually beginning to work.

I did use BW Phospate E over 2 weeks with some success. I am hoping to keep phosphates in this lower range with the export brick and algae growth in refugium. I feel compelled to add that I am growing nuisance algae in refugium since I have failed thrice to grow Chaeto and Algae barn hasn’t had any for sale since before Xmas.

I do add about 0.5 mL Iodine weekly for shrimp and crabs. I do add Red Sea Energy Plus AB+ 2-3 times a week (4mL) for frags of Zoa, lps, and sps.

Trying to understand the Vanadium since it’s nearly 100 times more than ‘ideal value’ and over the uk marine concentration Of 100 cited as likely ok for some inhabitants and no the case for more sensitive creatures. I don’t understand the silicon and suspect the nickel and zinc are moving in wrong direction.

Thinking about the water change rate, since we don’t know what the initial Zn, Ni, V and Si values were, we can’t tell if they are going down. But I will think out loud and say that if they are elevated after all those water changes they were incredibly high to start with or they are a) coming in with the water changes, the salt rather than the RODI or b) they being continually added via leaching from the brick or an additive. If you tested for silicates you might be able to track down the source of silicon. The concentration of these elements don’t seem to be at a toxic level, just elevated.

Not being able to grow macro algae is difficult to interpret. Is it poor circulation or the wrong light intensity or a depleted trace element? If you have good algae eaters in the aquarium, grow and harvest nuisance algae in the refugium or switch to Ulva.

The Red Sea Energy Plus might be a source or part of the source of continued high nitrate. I am reaching on this one.

 

[drblakjak55]

So the real gorilla in the room. In those out there who have done both triton and ati at the same time which one is more reproducible/reliable when compared to something you’ve tested at home; alk, Ca, mg.

 

[Marinexx]

Thinking about the water change rate, since we don’t know what the initial Zn, Ni, V and Si values were, we can’t tell if they are going down. But I will think out loud and say that if they are elevated after all those water changes they were incredibly high to start with or they are a) coming in with the water changes, the salt rather than the RODI or b) they being continually added via leaching from the brick or an additive. If you tested for silicates you might be able to track down the source of silicon. The concentration of these elements don’t seem to be at a toxic level, just elevated. Not being able to grow macro algae is difficult to interpret. Is it poor circulation or the wrong light intensity or a depleted trace element? If you have good algae eaters in the aquarium, grow and harvest nuisance algae in the refugium or switch to Ulva. The Red Sea Energy Plus might be a source or part of the source of continued high nitrate. I am reaching on this one.

 

[Dan_P]

So the real gorilla in the room. In those out there who have done both triton and ati at the same time which one is more reproducible/reliable when compared to something you’ve tested at home; alk, Ca, mg.

The dance with that gorilla is coming soon. @taricha, and @Rick Mathew are currently writing articles to address questions like that. We like ICP’s but hate variability. We will share how we are going to use ICP data.