Series of water changes - possible damage?

[DoomervilleG]

Hello,
I have a question about lowering my phosphates..currently they are .25 and my nitrates are 10ppm. I'm not sure how to combat one or the other, I know that water changes will help, but how much is too much?
I have a 32g biocube with roughly 16-20lbs of rock and 20lbs of sand(Caribsea aragalive). I have a small patch of cyano, and the tank is roughly 6 months old. The tank water hasn't ever been particularly clear. I was running chemipure blue to help, but I read that I could strip the tank of nutrients.

 

[BostonReefer300]

Hi, as a start, what test kits are you using?

 

[DoomervilleG]

I am using API for all of them, I have a salifert ammonia test I use, because it is easier to read the colors for me.

 

[brandon429]

Study this thread start to finish


this is the largest water change at once possible in reefing, and we’ve done ten thousand of these here at rtr

Algae/Cyano Issue Not Improving, Help Please?

All stable and no recurrence so far. Water parameters all A ok

www.reef2reef.com

notice how we didn’t measure any param including phosphate


the risk in a big water change isn’t param alteration it’s the pouring back in of clean water into a tank and stirring up the sandbed releasing toxins


as you can see above, using that technique no bad stuff is in the sand at the time 100% new water is added to the perfectly clean tank. if you are adding water to a rip cleaned tank that can’t upwell waste, you can do a 600% water change and it’s no harm. this type of disassembly and surgical procedure is exactly how you take down a reef in order to move it or upgrade, the exact steps are a cloudless skip cycle reset tank as many times as you want to run it.

reefs get flushed with waves, that's just what we're doing.

 

[DoomervilleG]

That is an awesome thread, thank you Brandon. I'm thinking I will give this a shot.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello,
I have a question about lowering my phosphates..currently they are .25 and my nitrates are 10ppm. I'm not sure how to combat one or the other, I know that water changes will help, but how much is too much?
I have a 32g biocube with roughly 16-20lbs of rock and 20lbs of sand(Caribsea aragalive). I have a small patch of cyano, and the tank is roughly 6 months old. The tank water hasn't ever been particularly clear. I was running chemipure blue to help, but I read that I could strip the tank of nutrients.

I do not know that you need to do anything, but there are many ways to reduce phosphate that work well. Growing macroalgae, GFO, etc.

As to the title, water changes are not an especially good way for phosphate since much is bound to rock and sand and won't be removed that way. Then, after the water change and phosphate is lowering initially, some comes back off the rock and sand, raising it again.

Phosphate in the Reef Aquarium

The phosphorus atom is one of living matter's basic building blocks. It is present in every living creature and in every reef aquarium's water. Unfortunately, it is often present in excess in reef aquaria, and that excess has the potential to cause at least two substantial problems for...

www.reefedition.com

 

[brandon429]

Agreed

Was going to add we want this minor hassle new growth in new tanks, signifies there's some nutrients available for recycling, helps avoid coral bleaching, cyano and algae are expected in new setups
The work lessens months later when coralline shows up


I recommend non chemical approaches to invasion control in new tanks, for example lifting out a rock and cleaning off cyano beats the option of trying to starve it in some way


Reducing feed around a target goal isn't ideal compared to strong target feeding and export manually of waste mass in some way/ topical sandbed spot cleaning with a siphon hose vs lowering phosphate further...

 

[DoomervilleG]

Yeah, I've been reading a lot of different methods, and I find myself having to forcibly slow down. If I add a new coral, and it doesn't respond, I immediately think I did something wrong. Then I start reading, instead of just taking a step back to let it figure it out. Not a great hobby for neurotic individuals, lol

 

[brandon429]

Im that way, imagine it getting to the point where you repeatedly add 35% peroxide pre rocket fuel into your tank because gha w be blasted

(wasnt added into the water, it was spot on the rock direct)

the point being i wanted a clean system and that did occur lol

 

[ChaosAquaculture]

You could technically do 100% water changes every day and it wouldn’t be “too much” as somebody mentioned earlier, it’s about not stirring the sand or left over detritus around. It can also be unnecessarily stressful to fish and coral. I’d also suggest getting red seas test kits as they are more accurate than api’s. Look into gfo for lowering your nutrients. What’s your stock and what do you feed? - kali

 

[DoomervilleG]

2 clowns, goby/pistol pair, an a total of 12 inverts give or take one, and a cleaner shrimp. I feed every other day, pellets, and on Saturday I feed a little frozen shrimp instead of the pellets. As for how much per feeding..a small pinch. Every gets food, there usually isn't anything left over(I imagine some is escaping to the bottom someplace though)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

2 clowns, goby/pistol pair, an a total of 12 inverts give or take one, and a cleaner shrimp. I feed every other day, pellets, and on Saturday I feed a little frozen shrimp instead of the pellets. As for how much per feeding..a small pinch. Every gets food, there usually isn't anything left over(I imagine some is escaping to the bottom someplace though)

Just a random comment...

From the perspective of nitrate and phosphate getting from food into the water, it doesn't really matter if it is eaten or not. Most of the N and P in foods ends up in the water.

 

[DoomervilleG]

Yessir, it was more of a means to illustrate how much food, less about the potential waste

 

[Pico bam]

Honestly you might not have .25 phosphate its likely the api test kit just reading that. Id recommend you get a better phosphate test kit might save you on the saltwater.

 

[DoomervilleG]

Honestly you might not have .25 phosphate its likely the api test kit just reading that. Id recommend you get a better phosphate test kit might save you on the saltwater.

I have had a lot of issues reading the api kits, someone else mentioned red sea above, and I'm thinking I'll grab a set of those for a second opinion

 

[Pico bam]

I have had a lot of issues reading the api kits, someone else mentioned red sea above, and I'm thinking I'll grab a set of those for a second opinion

Very good. Just my experience with api.

 

[Not an IT guy]

Or tropic Marin. I believe it to be a medium between the high end test kits.

 

[DoomervilleG]

So a quick question, that I realized I was doing today. My weekly water change is 10g, I realized I was doing this today, as it's been muscle habit since I started the tank months ago, I'm wondering if this could be causing the swings I'm experiencing?

 

[DoomervilleG]

It's 32g biocube with roughly 15lbs of rock, so 10g is nearly a 3rd and then some, is why I ask

Sorry for double post, I hit the wrong button from my phone.

 

[brandon429]

Randy mentioned how what you're measuring isn't the full picture of p04, cease detailing over it. your reef will work better if you stop testing for it for six months and reef by strong feed in, water change and export waste from that feed over and over. that specifically lends better results than you owning a $400 phosphate tester and responding to it, and even with a tester like that there are organic vs inorganic forms that prevent us from assessing the total picture, you're working with half a slice of pie at best. cease testing for it for a while.

now that you're done testing for it, you can see your current water change regimen is working great and can be upped, bigtime, if ever needed.