Shaun's 2000 Litre (530 USG) Living Reef & Red Sea Max S 650 LED Design & Build

[fabutahoun]

All Parameters looks good, magnesium is low but not that low and can be fixed easily.
For Iodine I tested once with Triton and many times with red sea test kit and it was always at 0. I started to dose seachem Iodine, but to be honest I never felt there is any benefit from dosing, so I stopped after I finished the bottle

 

[SPR1968]

All Parameters looks good, magnesium is low but not that low and can be fixed easily.
For Iodine I tested once with Triton and many times with red sea test kit and it was always at 0. I started to dose seachem Iodine, but to be honest I never felt there is any benefit from dosing, so I stopped after I finished the bottle

Yes i agree, it just shows you how ‘off’ the test kits can be, the Red Sea was always around 14-1500 and this isn’t exactly a small difference to the actual triton result.

I think on the trace elements like iodine, the numbers are quiet small and I’m just going to increase the doses of coral colours slightly as I’ve always aired on the side of caution, which I still will but just a little more

 

[fabutahoun]

Yes i agree, it just shows you how ‘off’ the test kits can be, the Red Sea was always around 14-1500 and this isn’t exactly a small difference to the actual triton result.

I think on the trace elements like iodine, the numbers are quiet small and I’m just going to increase the doses of coral colours slightly as I’ve always aired on the side of caution, which I still will but just a little more

And it is not a bad idea to send another sample to Triton after a month or two to see if trace elements are starting to raise. you know these colors supplements contain some heavy metals that can be harmful if overdosed.

 

[SPR1968]

I’m now adding Foundation C and according to the dosage on the powder version it’s aprox 63g /100 litres so that’s around 3 20g scoops x 5.5 (550 litres) which seems an awful lot. Infact I’m still double checking it! I will spread this over around 7 days or so

And that’s just to get from around 1220ppm to 1310ppm and I want it a little higher than that

The instructions are
1g will raise the Mg level of 100 liters (25 gal) 1.34ppm.

So 5 using 500 litres for safety
5g = 1.34
1310-1220=90ppm increase required
90/1.34=67.16

67.16 x 5 = 335g

335g sounds an awful lot! PLEASE CHECK MY MATHS

 

[SPR1968]

I think what I’ll do it add around 50% of what the calculation is and then wait for the new NYOS test kit to arrive

As a matter of interest, I’ve just read for the first time the accuracy of the Red Sea Magnesium test kits, apparently there are 2 now, one with an accuracy of 100ppm (what!) and the other 50ppm, so not very accurate!

The NYOS is shown as accurate to 15ppm

https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/marine-care-program/magnesium/

https://www.nyos.info/en/testkits/reefer-test-kits/magnesium-reefer

 

[SPR1968]

And it is not a bad idea to send another sample to Triton after a month or two to see if trace elements are starting to raise. you know these colors supplements contain some heavy metals that can be harmful if overdosed.

Yes I know, that’s why I’ve always aired on the side of caution and manually dosed the coral colours rather than auto dosing as I’m more in control

Non of the numbers are to bad anyway so just a few tweaks, well apart from magnesium. I can’t believe Red Sea sell a kit that’s accurate to +/-100ppm ! That’s utter rubbish and I’ve not seen that on the web site until recently. People think there levels are fine at say 1310 when actually they could be very low at 1210 or 1410...!

The calcium tests are not much better from what they are now advertising on their web site which I have never seen before.

https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/marine-care-program/calcium-test-kit/

https://www.nyos.info/en/testkits/reefer-test-kits/calcium-reefer

I’ve just ordered the NYOS calcium as well. I think Red Sea need to up their game on the test kits although it looks like there’s maybe a new slightly better range of kits as well

 

[fabutahoun]

I’m now adding Foundation C and according to the dosage on the powder version it’s aprox 63g /100 litres so that’s around 3 20g scoops x 5.5 (550 litres) which seems an awful lot. Infact I’m still double checking it! I will spread this over around 7 days or so

And that’s just to get from around 1220ppm to 1310ppm and I want it higher than that

The instructions are
1g will raise the Mg level of 100 liters (25 gal) 1.34ppm.

So 5 using 500 litres for safety
5g = 1.34
1310-1220=90ppm increase required
90/1.34=67.16

67.16 x 5 = 335g

335g sounds an awful lot! PLEASE CHECK MY MATHS

Yes Math is correct, with dosing magnesium you need large amount to correct the values. you can split the dose and test, then dose again next day.
Using my calculator, I didn't add red sea products to the list, but I'll add them soon . I used Magnesium Chloride Instead and I got a close number

http://fadiaqua.com/

 

[SPR1968]

Yes Math is correct, with dosing magnesium you need large amount to correct the values. you can split the dose and test, then dose again next day.
Using my calculator, I didn't add red sea products to the list, but I'll add them soon . I used Magnesium Chloride Instead and I got a close number

http://fadiaqua.com/

Thanks Fadi and I didn’t know you had your own calculator!

I’ve just checked it out and it’s very helpful

 

[SPR1968]

I seem to be struggling with possible fish aggression, as whenever I add new fish to the tank these days, it’s not always a happy ending. ive often thought the main culprit was the Coral Beauty, but there’s also the dominance of the Triggers, Regal Tang etc to cope with.

I think the main reason may be feeding issues or lack of food, and of course potential bullying, for example I added 5 small Lyretail anthias to join the existing ones (the LFS said it should be ok!) but they were quiet small and I’m not certain of their long terms survival

Anyway, I’ve been looking at this and in my mind I’m thinking acclimatisation box to keep the new fish ‘safe’ while everyone gets used to each other for a few days/week rather than just dumping the new fish in and hoping they make it.

https://www.completeaquatics.co.uk/amed-fish-crabtrap?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI186DqdjJ3wIVR7TtCh1hXw19EAQYAyABEgJHaPD_BwE

 

[fabutahoun]

I seem to be struggling with possible fish aggression, as whenever I add new fish to the tank these days, it’s not always a happy ending. ive often thought the main culprit was the Coral Beauty, but there’s also the dominance of the Triggers, Regal Tang etc to cope with.

I think the main reason may be feeding issues or lack of food, and of course potential bullying, for example I added 5 small Lyretail anthias to join the existing ones (the LFS said it should be ok!) but they were quiet small and I’m not certain of their long terms survival

Anyway, I’ve been looking at this and in my mind I’m thinking acclimatisation box to keep the new fish ‘safe’ while everyone gets used to each other for a few days/week rather than just dumping the new fish in and hoping they make it.

https://www.completeaquatics.co.uk/amed-fish-crabtrap?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI186DqdjJ3wIVR7TtCh1hXw19EAQYAyABEgJHaPD_BwE

Yes Acclimation box is helpful with adding new fish, in addition for giving them some time so everybody get used to each other, it will give the new fish a safe place to feed and put on some weight before joining the mosh pit.
I always over feed when I add new fish , with anthias you need to have multiple small feeding across they day 4 is minimum after they put on some weight and acclimate you can reduce the feeding.

I lost all my anthais slowly every time I travel for longer than 2 weeks during the last 2 years, I started with 10 dispar anthais and 10 tuka, before the last time I traveled there was only 3 dispar anthias, when I got back there were no sign of them. the only anthias that is doing well is the borbonius anthias. I guess my tank is too aggressive to keep Anthias.

 

[SPR1968]

Yes Acclimation box is helpful with adding new fish, in addition for giving them some time so everybody get used to each other, it will give the new fish a safe place to feed and put on some weight before joining the mosh pit.
I always over feed when I add new fish , with anthias you need to have multiple small feeding across they day 4 is minimum after they put on some weight and acclimate you can reduce the feeding.

I lost all my anthais slowly every time I travel for longer than 2 weeks during the last 2 years, I started with 10 dispar anthais and 10 tuka, before the last time I traveled there was only 3 dispar anthias, when I got back there were no sign of them. the only anthias that is doing well is the borbonius anthias. I guess my tank is too aggressive to keep Anthias.

Thanks Fadi ‘Mosh Pit’ exactly sums it up!

The new anthias were very small, I saw a total of 8 2 days ago but now 4 so hence my thoughts. They could well be hiding away, but I’ve just ordered the acclimation box as it seems like it’s now the way I need to go with an established tank. Otherwise it’s not fair to the new occupants or my wallet! Lol

Like you,I tend to over feed when I add new fish, but studying the situation, this only works for a short while and as soon as they come out of the rocks they often get harassed.

A safe haven is clearly the way to go whilst everyone settles in.

 

[SPR1968]

So then, who would like to hear about my New Years Eve 2019!

I was sat watching the tank and following the recent losses of the Freckle Face and Naso Tangs, and also suddenly realising the Kole Eyed Tang has disappeared, I was eyeing the Chevron Tang with concern.

He looked very lethargic and was either at the side of a rock, or near the top of the tank depending on who was bothering him.

Anyway, I was looking at him and became convinced I could see some spots. I’ve had some Polyp Lab Medic for a while so thought best use it as something is clearly killing the fish

So I added it to the tank as per the instructions (which DO NOT say mix first with tank water!). Anyway in it went and the mushroom corals (or the green things below!)basically exploded!

This picture doesn’t show the full impact of all the debris released, but I was stood there, eyes wide open thinking OMG!!

Anyway after an agonising hour or so, the waters cleared, and the following morning all was well. I added another dose of Medic, mixed in tank water first (which I learned from other users via utube!)and no issues.

Anyway the morning progressed and I’m awaiting the appearance of the Chevron as he’s often a late riser but no sign so far.

Anyway time went on and my grandson came in (I’m a young grandpa! Lol) and said Gandad, one of vyour fishes isn’t wery well..... so I said I’ll come and have a look.....

Mmmmm. The poor Chevron was still alive so I freed him and euthanised him



So then thinking back, ALL my recent fish loses are since I added the new anemone, we shall call it The Accused

I believe the Naso Tang slept at night just to the side of the anemone and when I removed him he had no signs of immediate ‘bad’ injury as per the picture. His fins were being pecked by the Triggers and Regal Tang which is why I removed him. But heavy breathing.... signs of being stung maybe in hindsight.....

The Freckle Face Tang, aka GSP eater, is a mystery although he could have been poisoned/stung or maybe he could have got to close to an anemone, as part of him was being eaten by my small white anemone

Anyway what to do.....

All other fish seem fine with no issues, currently, and I’m starting to think this recent addition could well be the cause of death for some of the fish who were potentially not aware of anemone stings/eating habits depending on were they came from or if they were tank bred for example

Polyp Lab Medic, I cant see any reason to continue using this and there are no signs of anything on other fish so I think I’ll stop treatment as this was probably a knee jerk reaction.

I’ve just changed the UVC bulb so that’s all back up to full power

Anyway, thoughts greatly appreciated, but that sweet colourful Red Tip Bubble Anemone, The Accused isn’t as sweet as it looks are my thoughts.......

 

[Brew12]

So then, who would like to hear about my New Years Eve 2019!

I was sat watching the tank and following the recent losses of the Freckle Face and Naso Tangs, and also suddenly realising the Kole Eyed Tang has disappeared, I was eyeing the Chevron Tang with concern.

He looked very lethargic and was either at the side of a rock, or near the top of the tank depending on who was bothering him.

Anyway, I was looking at him and became convinced I could see some spots. I’ve had some Polyp Lab Medic for a while so thought best use it as something is clearly killing the fish

So I added it to the tank as per the instructions (which DO NOT say mix first with tank water!). Anyway in it went and the mushroom corals (or the green things below!)basically exploded!

This picture doesn’t show the full impact of all the debris released, but I was stood there, eyes wide open thinking OMG!!

Anyway after an agonising hour or so, the waters cleared, and the following morning all was well. I added another dose of Medic, mixed in tank water first (which I learned from other users via utube!)and no issues.

Anyway the morning progressed and I’m awaiting the appearance of the Chevron as he’s often a late riser but no sign so far.

Anyway time went on and my grandson came in (I’m a young grandpa! Lol) and said Gandad, one of vyour fishes isn’t wery well..... so I said I’ll come and have a look.....

Mmmmm. The poor Chevron was still alive so I freed him and euthanised him



So then thinking back, ALL my recent fish loses are since I added the new anemone, we shall call it The Accused

I believe the Naso Tang slept at night just to the side of the anemone and when I removed him he had no signs of immediate ‘bad’ injury as per the picture. His fins were being pecked by the Triggers and Regal Tang which is why I removed him. But heavy breathing.... signs of being stung maybe in hindsight.....

The Freckle Face Tang, aka GSP eater, is a mystery although he could have been poisoned/stung or maybe he could have got to close to an anemone, as part of him was being eaten by my small white anemone

Anyway what to do.....

All other fish seem fine with no issues, currently, and I’m starting to think this recent addition could well be the cause of death for some of the fish who were potentially not aware of anemone stings/eating habits depending on were they came from or if they were tank bred for example

Polyp Lab Medic, I cant see any reason to continue using this and there are no signs of anything on other fish so I think I’ll stop treatment as this was probably a knee jerk reaction.

I’ve just changed the UVC bulb so that’s all back up to full power

Anyway, thoughts greatly appreciated, but that sweet colourful Red Tip Bubble Anemone, The Accused isn’t as sweet as it looks are my thoughts.......

Shaun, I'm so sorry you are having these problems. Unfortunately, I doubt that the BTA is the cause of your fish deaths. It is likely the vehicle that a parasite or bacteria used to get into your tank that is causing the problems.
I would rule out Ich since it typically kills much more slowly if at all, and shows visible symptoms easily.
Marine Velvet is a possibility and often the first parasite that comes to mind with rapid fish deaths and little to no visible symptoms. This is definitely possible. Personally, I think we jump to marine velvet conclusions early but that is just speculation. Almost no one does a biopsy to actually determine cause of death.
Another possibility is that you got a nasty gram negative bacteria in your system. These can take out fish in a day or two with almost no visible symptoms. Behaviorally it is similar to what we attribute to marine velvet. Lethargy and rapid breathing being the most common, often followed by trouble swimming towards the end.
The last thing that comes to mind is that it could be a virus. I don't have much to go on with this, but there has been discussion of a virus that is rapidly wiping people systems. Little is known about it publicly, and there isn't much to do about it once you get it. Hopefully this isn't what you have. I would consider it unlikely since you still have survivors.

Medic is basically a peroxide salt. We know peroxides can kill free swimming parasites such as certain stages of fish parasites. There is testing being done by the fish health guru's on R2R on using hydrogen peroxide as a bath for treating ich and velvet. The issue with Medic is that at reef safe levels it is unlikely to be strong enough to break the entire parasites life cycle without using for 30+ days. That amount of dosing may not be reef safe either.

Hmmm... I think I got long winded. I need to work on that. Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[SPR1968]

Shaun, I'm so sorry you are having these problems. Unfortunately, I doubt that the BTA is the cause of your fish deaths. It is likely the vehicle that a parasite or bacteria used to get into your tank that is causing the problems.
I would rule out Ich since it typically kills much more slowly if at all, and shows visible symptoms easily.
Marine Velvet is a possibility and often the first parasite that comes to mind with rapid fish deaths and little to no visible symptoms. This is definitely possible. Personally, I think we jump to marine velvet conclusions early but that is just speculation. Almost no one does a biopsy to actually determine cause of death.
Another possibility is that you got a nasty gram negative bacteria in your system. These can take out fish in a day or two with almost no visible symptoms. Behaviorally it is similar to what we attribute to marine velvet. Lethargy and rapid breathing being the most common, often followed by trouble swimming towards the end.
The last thing that comes to mind is that it could be a virus. I don't have much to go on with this, but there has been discussion of a virus that is rapidly wiping people systems. Little is known about it publicly, and there isn't much to do about it once you get it. Hopefully this isn't what you have. I would consider it unlikely since you still have survivors.

Medic is basically a peroxide salt. We know peroxides can kill free swimming parasites such as certain stages of fish parasites. There is testing being done by the fish health guru's on R2R on using hydrogen peroxide as a bath for treating ich and velvet. The issue with Medic is that at reef safe levels it is unlikely to be strong enough to break the entire parasites life cycle without using for 30+ days. That amount of dosing may not be reef safe either.

Hmmm... I think I got long winded. I need to work on that. Hope this helps and good luck!

Thanks for taking the time to stop by @Brew12 it’s greatly appreciated as is all the advice and pointers That will certainly give me something to read up on, especially the Gram Negative Bacteria!

All seems well ‘for the moment’ but as it’s still possibly a parasite/bacteria/velvet I might just keep using the Medic as I have it anyway and there didn’t seem any negative reaction (other than the exploding corals yesterday!!) to the system. I’ll go to maximum dose and just use it up

I’m still concerned about the anemone, I fed it for the first time today and OMG it’s a beast of a thing. I can see if it gets hold of any of the smaller fish they will be in trouble for sure!

 

[hdsoftail1065]

I'm sorry to hear about your fish Shaun. I do agree with @Brew12 on the anenome not being the culprit and you have something else going on. You have a beautiful tank, I hope you can get it lined out.

 

[SPR1968]

I'm sorry to hear about your fish Shaun. I do agree with @Brew12 on the anenome not being the culprit and you have something else going on. You have a beautiful tank, I hope you can get it lined out.

Many thanks and I’m sure we will as there’s no better place to get advice than on here, that’s for sure.

I didn’t like this bit though ‘discussion of a virus that is rapidly wiping people systems. Little is known about it publicly, and there isn't much to do about it once you get it’!!! Mmmmm.....

I’ll just ignore that bit for the moment!

 

[Brew12]

All seems well ‘for the moment’ but as it’s still possibly a parasite/bacteria/velvet I might just keep using the Medic as I have it anyway and there didn’t seem any negative reaction (other than the exploding corals yesterday!!) to the system. I’ll go to maximum dose and just use it up

This shouldn't hurt anything, so its not a bad idea. In the future, you can use regular H2O2 if you want, it is a lot cheaper.

I don't know your system very well but from the sounds of it the fish you lost were the larger and more aggressive ones (or most likely to be picked on). There is a good chance your remaining fish will be fine since this will have reduced the stress level in your system. Their immune system should be a bit healthier to start and are under even less stress now.

Yup, best to ignore the part of the virus. I highly doubt that is what you are dealing with since the only verified cases I am aware of caused 100% losses in 3 days or less. If it is bacterial and the other fish make it, the situation should resolve and be safe to add fish again in a few weeks. If it is velvet, you either have to run a system based on immunity or pull the remaining fish, treat them, and leave the tank fish free for 42 days. Not much fun.

 

[SPR1968]

I don't know your system very well but from the sounds of it the fish you lost were the larger and more aggressive ones (or most likely to be picked on). There is a good chance your remaining fish will be fine since this will have reduced the stress level in your system. Their immune system should be a bit healthier to start and are under even less stress now.

You have this absolutely spot on. The Freckleface was very dominating, active etc., and all of the others were very docile and submissive.

Interestingly non of my long term fish have been affected, so far anyway, and it makes perfect sense what you’ve said.

 

[SPR1968]

I’ve just inserted this full tank shot in case it may help with the current discussion and was taken last week

And any excuse! Lol. We’ll call in 2019 Anyway!

 

[rkpetersen]

Nice looking tank Shaun! Sorry to hear about your fish dying. Not sure what's causing it, maybe an infectious disease as mentioned already, but probably not the BTA. I think it probably grabbed the chevron when it was already moribund and floated into it. If you touch the BTA, you'll notice that it isn't all that sticky to your finger. Well, same for fish. Touch the surface of a healthy haddoni carpet nem, on the other hand, and it will latch on with every tentacle that touches you and be disinclined to let go. That's why haddonis are called fish eaters. My Foxface had a near miss about a month ago (the scars have healed up nicely though.)