Shoudl we let fish remain in qt tank after copper treatment?

[jrmailo]

Hi,

I have recently finished with my 30 days of copper power at 1.8 - 2.30 ppm (Hanna instrument) and I am now removing copper in preparation for API general cure treatment.

My worry is that shortly before I started the copper treatment, one of my new fish for l(a clown fish) was showing symptoms of flashing which could be due to ich or velvets. So, if it was indeed ich or velvets, it was likely that this fish was shedding the parasites and allowing for the encrustment of the tomont stage before I could raise my copper to therapeutic level (I did 7 days ramp up period before reaching 1.5ppm and higher).

Fast forward to now (post 30 days copper treatment), where I lower my copper below the therapeutic level, this means means that tomonts, which can potentially remain dormant for up to 76 days (hence the well known fallow period), could come back and reinfect my fish.

So this bring me to the next question. Are we really supposed to let the fish stay in the QT beyond the 30 days of their therapeutic copper treatment, whether for observation or for any other additional medication? For various reasons we often times either do not start the treatment right away after acquiring a new fish (to let the fish settles in) or we try not to raise the copper level too quickly for it to be less harsh on the fish. This is also especially worrying if the fish were known to be infected and/or had shown symptoms associated with ich or velvets prior to us reaching the therapeutic level of copper in our QT. This could technically let the parasites shed and encrust to become immune and dormant during the active treatment and reinfect once the copper falls below therapeutic level. Could this be part of a reason that we sometimes see ineffective copper treatment with reinfect quickly after? Am I just worrying too much? Or is this a real threat that we should considering in our qt process?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi,

I have recently finished with my 30 days of copper power at 1.8 - 2.30 ppm (Hanna instrument) and I am now removing copper in preparation for API general cure treatment.

My worry is that shortly before I started the copper treatment, one of my new fish for l(a clown fish) was showing symptoms of flashing which could be due to ich or velvets. So, if it was indeed ich or velvets, it was likely that this fish was shedding the parasites and allowing for the encrustment of the tomont stage before I could raise my copper to therapeutic level (I did 7 days ramp up period before reaching 1.5ppm and higher).

Fast forward to now (post 30 days copper treatment), where I lower my copper below the therapeutic level, this means means that tomonts, which can potentially remain dormant for up to 76 days (hence the well known fallow period), could come back and reinfect my fish.

So this bring me to the next question. Are we really supposed to let the fish stay in the QT beyond the 30 days of their therapeutic copper treatment, whether for observation or for any other additional medication? For various reasons we often times either do not start the treatment right away after acquiring a new fish (to let the fish settles in) or we try not to raise the copper level too quickly for it to be less harsh on the fish. This is also especially worrying if the fish were known to be infected and/or had shown symptoms associated with ich or velvets prior to us reaching the therapeutic level of copper in our QT. This could technically let the parasites shed and encrust to become immune and dormant during the active treatment and reinfect once the copper falls below therapeutic level. Could this be part of a reason that we sometimes see ineffective copper treatment with reinfect quickly after? Am I just worrying too much? Or is this a real threat that we should considering in our qt process?

Scratching / flashing is more often a symptom of flukes than for ich or velvet, so I would continue with the general cure treatment and see how things progress after that.
Jay

 

[Pimba]

Fast forward to now (post 30 days copper treatment), where I lower my copper below the therapeutic level, this means means that tomonts, which can potentially remain dormant for up to 76 days (hence the well known fallow period), could come back and reinfect my fish

This is actually a good point that I've been thinking myself.


For dealing with copper in QT I have read 2 approaches.

1. 14 days in copper and then move fish to a sterile tank - clear with this approach.

2. Copper for 30 days and slowly bring the copper levels down in the SAME tank.

If 2nd approach is still a valid one, what happens to those in dormant phase coming back to life after 30 days ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is actually a good point that I've been thinking myself.


For dealing with copper in QT I have read 2 approaches.

1. 14 days in copper and then move fish to a sterile tank - clear with this approach.

2. Copper for 30 days and slowly bring the copper levels down in the SAME tank.

If 2nd approach is still a valid one, what happens to those in dormant phase coming back to life after 30 days ?

Don't forget that the 75 days for the tomont stage is based on ONE study, at cool temperatures, in a xeric culture (no bacteria). The real world scenario is somewhere between 45 days and 75 days.

You should run copper for 30 days PAST seeing the last spots on the fish.

If you try option 1 (not recommended!) you need to pull the fish at around day 17, while it is still in full copper, else you stand a good chance of carrying theronts over to the new tank, continuing the infection.

Jay

 

[ariellemermaid]

This is actually a good point that I've been thinking myself.


For dealing with copper in QT I have read 2 approaches.

1. 14 days in copper and then move fish to a sterile tank - clear with this approach.

2. Copper for 30 days and slowly bring the copper levels down in the SAME tank.

If 2nd approach is still a valid one, what happens to those in dormant phase coming back to life after 30 days ?

Some recommend against option 2 for exactly the reason you identified. As Jay mentioned he’s never been a fan of option 1 either. So I would say the ideal is 30 days of copper, then transfer to an observation tank for 2 weeks. That’s the approach I’m going to use going forward.