Should I start a company & build the light reefers actually need?

[ReefInskeep]

Seriously appreciate all the input. I’m not sure I’m crazy enough to do this. lol

So main issues thus far:

• Patents getting in the way
• Other companies seem to be offering similar products, even if they are ridiculously expensive or not exactly what I’m looking for ( @sbreefco is coming out with a T5-esque light, BML had great ideas but they went into horticulture and never advanced the ideas, then the ones I mentioned previously )
• Market share & getting to a point where it’s profitable
• Then if those don’t prevent me from doing this, I don’t have the money to do this. Which seems important. lol

But...I’m still tempted. Right now the ideas mentioned here have tilted me towards a lighting system that uses bars, like the Orphek OR or BML, and links them together in a larger fixture, with customizable LEDs and diffuser options. Like if BML has stayed in the reef market and developed a fixture in standard lengths (18”, 24”, 36”, 48”, etc.) that incorporated bars with modern LED technology and added diffusers as an option (or standard).

Issues I see with that:

• Patents, depending on what BML, Orphek, etc. have patented.
• How to get all the individual bars linked in the fixture system to operate as one, or enable individual channels of control.
• Can it be done for under $750, for a setup that will provide excellent lighting on a 36” x 18” SPS dominant tank?
• Would a larger established company make this before I could get it to market?

 

[Brew12]

Seriously appreciate all the input. I’m not sure I’m crazy enough to do this. lol

So main issues thus far:

• Patents getting in the way
• Other companies seem to be offering similar products, even if they are ridiculously expensive or not exactly what I’m looking for ( @sbreefco is coming out with a T5-esque light, BML had great ideas but they went into horticulture and never advanced the ideas, then the ones I mentioned previously )
• Market share & getting to a point where it’s profitable
• Then if those don’t prevent me from doing this, I don’t have the money to do this. Which seems important. lol

But...I’m still tempted. Right now the ideas mentioned here have tilted me towards a lighting system that uses bars, like the Orphek OR or BML, and links them together in a larger fixture, with customizable LEDs and diffuser options. Like if BML has stayed in the reef market and developed a fixture in standard lengths (18”, 24”, 36”, 48”, etc.) that incorporated bars with modern LED technology and added diffusers as an option (or standard).

Issues I see with that:

• Patents, depending on what BML, Orphek, etc. have patented.
• How to get all the individual bars linked in the fixture system to operate as one, or enable individual channels of control.
• Can it be done for under $750, for a setup that will provide excellent lighting on a 36” x 18” SPS dominant tank?
• Would a larger established company make this before I could get it to market?

Another challenge will be if similar products are already on the market. Outside of a good web app for control, what you are describing sounds a lot like the Reefbreeders photon V2. The 36" version is $550. Would your idea be markedly different than it?
https://www.reefbreeders.com/shop/photon-32-v2/

 

[ReefInskeep]

Another challenge will be if similar products are already on the market. Outside of a good web app for control, what you are describing sounds a lot like the Reefbreeders photon V2. The 36" version is $550. Would your idea be markedly different than it?
https://www.reefbreeders.com/shop/photon-32-v2/

Yes, very.

 

[ReefInskeep]

Reefbreeders makes solid lights, but not at all what I’m thinking of. They’re just customized Chinese OEM lights. Their panels lack the spectrum choices I’d want available, the distribution & color blending, diffusion, the potential modularity, etc. And, the lenses & layout of the LEDs aren’t at all what I’d go with.

At some point I’ll draw up some sketches & models of the idea... Until now this has only been an idea bouncing around my head. Now I’m actually considering this. lol

 

[jda]

https://acrooptics.com/crave-system/

This is spot-on. I think that if you look at their starting/founding principles, then they would be a nearly exact duplicate of what you posted. They ended up being a lot more ($2-4k, depending), some of the units for a 4 foot tank use 800+ watts, get hot and they never really caught on even locally (they are within about 10 miles of my house and went to a lot of local shows and stuff).

This is no small task that you are attempting to solve.

I have started a few businesses and done very well, so I wish you luck. Remember that 90% of all businesses fail, so have a good plan for your business but have a better backup plan for what to do next... people who open businesses with a good back-up plan have a much smaller failure rate (usually because they are more thought out). My only advice would be to look at manufacturing in Mexico/Central-America as opposed to China since they will not make you hand over all of your IP to have your products built there.

 

[ReefInskeep]

This is spot-on. I think that if you look at their starting/founding principles, then they would be a nearly exact duplicate of what you posted. They ended up being a lot more ($2-4k, depending), some of the units for a 4 foot tank use 800+ watts, get hot and they never really caught on even locally (they are within about 10 miles of my house and went to a lot of local shows and stuff).

This is no small task that you are attempting to solve.

I have started a few businesses and done very well, so I wish you luck. Remember that 90% of all businesses fail, so have a good plan for your business but have a better backup plan for what to do next... people who open businesses with a good back-up plan have a much smaller failure rate (usually because they are more thought out). My only advice would be to look at manufacturing in Mexico/Central-America as opposed to China since they will not make you hand over all of your IP to have your products built there.

Thank you for that thoughtful post. Yes, their lights do look a lot closer to what I’d envisioned. But the pricing is way out there, the controllability, and the optics aren’t what I’d go with.

The reality of starting a business is very daunting. I also do a fair amount of DIY acrylic stuff and have ideas for that space, too. But good god, there be dragons in those depths. Lol

 

[icejam]

As I can't afford even the cheapest lights out there I am building my own.
Ordered 100 3w leds (10 of each at 10 different wavelengths) all the drivers, controllers, lenses, heatsinks, etc. directly from a manufacturer in China. Total cost was less than $40. Now I am making a small rig in which I will be able to test leds in various configurations and get all the measurements.
No wifi or app but USB and c+ for programming for now.
But you really don't need much capital to start experimenting and prototyping with leds.
You can use arduino with wifi module as the brains on the light. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. Uno gives you 6 channels. Mega could control 15.
The cost is $4 and $10 respectively.
Now add laser cut acrylic and I have 100 LED light for around $100.

Good luck with your venture!

 

[ReefInskeep]

As I can't afford even the cheapest lights out there I am building my own.
Ordered 100 3w leds (10 of each at 10 different wavelengths) all the drivers, controllers, lenses, heatsinks, etc. directly from a manufacturer in China. Total cost was less than $40. Now I am making a small rig in which I will be able to test leds in various configurations and get all the measurements.
No wifi or app but USB and c+ for programming for now.
But you really don't need much capital to start experimenting and prototyping with leds.
You can use arduino with wifi module as the brains on the light. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. Uno gives you 6 channels. Mega could control 15.
The cost is $4 and $10 respectively.
Now add laser cut acrylic and I have 100 LED light for around $100.

Good luck with your venture!

Can you PM me details about where you got your supplies?

That goes for anybody, any suggestions on where to source high quality materials at cheap prices would be greatly appreciated. Preferably SemiLed, Nichia and Cree diodes, etc.

 

[ReefInskeep]

I made a couple quick models of what I think would be ideal lighting.

One is a panel that has densely packed LEDs and a diffuser covering them all. The other is the modular bar-type light that would also have densely packed LEDs running the length of it and have a diffuser, similar to the “wing-lights” on a Maxspect Recurve but with a wider spectrum and much more power. The bars would be available individually, then a fixture would be available that could hold 3 to 4+ bars and linked together for common control.

Keep in mind these are the first rough draft without much detail. Just to give a rough idea of what I’m thinking of. In my head, they’re sleek, practical, attractively minimalist and modern. lol And they’d have basic onboard controls for power, dimming & spectrum.

 

[teller]

Of course I vote the second.
Like @Scorpius said:

Copy what ATI does with their dimmable t5 units but make them led. Problem solved

;Happy

I am still in the fence about the dimmable, wifi, Bluetooth, app, apex 0-10v and everything that introduce more complication for the end user. Also these features increase costs and not solve the issues the large competitors are "blamed" of.
Moreover, related to costs, take note the success aquatic life low cost hibrid fixture is getting.
No dimmable, no premium features, just back to the basics and.... Low cost and success.

 

[ReefInskeep]

Of course I vote the second.
Like @Scorpius said:


;Happy

I am still in the fence about the dimmable, wifi, Bluetooth, app, apex 0-10v and everything that introduce more complication for the end user. Also these features increase costs and not solve the issues the large competitors are "blamed" of.
Moreover, related to costs, take note the success aquatic life low cost hibrid fixture is getting.
No dimmable, no premium features, just back to the basics and.... Low cost and success.

You’ve got a point. So you’d appreciate what SB Reef Lights is coming out with? It does look awesome. (T5 looking LED fixture with high powered LED “bulbs”)

 

[ReefInskeep]

Stripping it down to bare essentials would be easier, but I think onboard power, dimming (& spectrum control on the panel fixture idea) would probably be a good way to go. One could make a fixture that doesn’t have anything more than an on/off button, but that restricts useage. The LED-bar fixture could work like that, people adding bars for spectrum, coverage or PAR like T5’s. But, even T5 fixtures can be dimmed... I’d also want to at least provide an option for basic 0-10V control so people could use their system of choice to control basic functions. Like SB Reefs, could offer different options (simple control knobs, integrated timer, or WiFi/app comparability).

I’d also like to see if I could make a cheap macro algae reactor using standard size buckets and sell a lid (with a water-tight seal, containing the light and all things necessary for a functional reactor) that fits onto them. Super cheap compared to what’s out there. Then there’s so much potential with high quality 3D printed things in Reef aquaria...

;Bookworm

 

[RickyMcG]

I'm a newbie to the reef world, so I can't speak to the light itself (I've got an AI Prime on a Fluval Evo; quite happy with it), but by day I'm a strategist/facilitator for startups and innovators. If you haven't read The Emyth Revisited and/or The Startup Owner's Manual, I'd counsel you to read them before (while?) putting energy into your endeavor. Well worth the time!

 

[Jason mack]

Interesting thread .!!! Following

 

[teller]

I do not know what SB Reef Lights are coming with. Do you have a link?
I always love the SB Reef Lights approach on the black boxes. For me is a good evidence related to modularity I mentioned before. However I do not know what this company is up to. Can you link or describe it? I am curious about it.
I like the idea about macro algae reactor. Can you describe your idea a little more? It should be lower cost.
More manufacturers are coming to this product, like Tunze and others.
A retrofit seems very interesting .

 

[TangingOut]

I love Orpheks just so dang expensive. Build something like that with even more coverage at a lower price point and I'm all in. That's saying a lot because I love my ATI/Hydra hybrid.

 

[icejam]

Can you PM me details about where you got your supplies?

That goes for anybody, any suggestions on where to source high quality materials at cheap prices would be greatly appreciated. Preferably SemiLed, Nichia and Cree diodes, etc.

PM sent.

 

[jda]

I thought about this a lot since last night. I have sold two businesses, one startup and one more traditional, and have others that I am still running. I would not give you a dime to invest in this endeavor. ...not because I think that it is a bad idea, or not possible, just because of the saturation in the market already. I worry that any other investors that you speak to will feel the same way. You are not talking about anything disruptive (lower cost like you are talking is not disruptive enough) and China in the market (with a lot of advantages since they can steal IP), three or four high-dollar American companies who are not stupid and even more high end EU companies that are well funded.

Another approach might be to prototype, get some patents and then sell your work to somebody who can take it to market. This can solve all of your goals except for the low cost since you will never be in control of that. Brand this with your name... like "ReefIns LED by Whomever."

If you choose, you could then use your royalty or profit from a prototype to iterate, get new patents and then perhaps have enough to manufacture this iteration as a piggy-back of what you did. If the first iteration was well loved, then drop the "by Whomever" and tack onto the brand loyalty.

If you do start a business that wants to run like a start up, then get the best IP lawyer that you can get... they are invaluable. I really do wish you good luck... just think really hard about this, read up and talk to some people before you spend too much.

Edit: my whole point here was not to be discouraging, but that you might have to fund all of this yourself. ...which can be awesome if you make it go.

 

[tsav87]

I thought about this a lot since last night. I have sold two businesses, one startup and one more traditional, and have others that I am still running. I would not give you a dime to invest in this endeavor. ...not because I think that it is a bad idea, or not possible, just because of the saturation in the market already. I worry that any other investors that you speak to will feel the same way. You are not talking about anything disruptive (lower cost like you are talking is not disruptive enough) and China in the market (with a lot of advantages since they can steal IP), three or four high-dollar American companies who are not stupid and even more high end EU companies that are well funded.

Another approach might be to prototype, get some patents and then sell your work to somebody who can take it to market. This can solve all of your goals except for the low cost since you will never be in control of that. Brand this with your name... like "ReefIns LED by Whomever."

If you choose, you could then use your royalty or profit from a prototype to iterate, get new patents and then perhaps have enough to manufacture this iteration as a piggy-back of what you did. If the first iteration was well loved, then drop the "by Whomever" and tack onto the brand loyalty.

If you do start a business that wants to start up, then get the best IP lawyer that you can get... they are invaluable. I really do wish you good luck... just think really hard about this, read up and talk to some people before you spend too much.

Best advice of the day right here.

 

[jda]

One more thing... I fear that you are going to have to choose between making money and helping out fellow reefers. You will not be able to ride both of those horses. If helping is what you are after, then consider getting something working, publish the specs, parts list, instructions, etc. for DIY and take donations from PayPal from people who build your unit... kinda in a Radiohead "In Rainbows" kind of fashion (probably nobody knows what I am talking about, sorry). Grateful people will support you for a while, until others get derivative and the market is flooded with pay-if-you-want designs... which is why you have to iterate and stay better than the derivatives.