Sick Anthias in QT.....Help??

[clhardy5]

Really long back story (some may have seen my previous posts)....Basically, bought 3 Anthias 7 weeks ago. Since they are a 'delicate' fish....I decided to do an observation quarantine. I did treat with General Cure - no disease obvious - just preventive, the first week they were in QT.

Everyone was doing fine....eating well....Then 3.5 weeks in, all 3 showed signs of ICK...confirmed here on R2R. The advice was to start Copper asap....Which I did. Ramped up to 2ppm of Coppersafe checked via Hanna. 2 of the Anthias were not taking well to it from the beginning, and over the course of 7 days, 2 of them quit eating and died. This third one was still eating at first, but then quit eating just like the others....She still looked healthy, so I decided to stop the copper and switch to the TTM - fearing the Copper was slowing doing her in. She handled the tank transfer well, and started eating again. I've been religious about keeping each transfer to 72 hours, and disinfecting all equipment for the other bucket, and allowing to dry before the next transfer. She's been through 4 transfers so far. Then yesterday...she quit eating, and now looks like she has something going on. I'm at my wits end about how to help her, and at least come out of this experience with one healthy fish.

Here is a video:


I'm looking for what else to do?

 

[fishguy242]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

 

[Wannabereefvet]

Really long back story (some may have seen my previous posts)....Basically, bought 3 Anthias 7 weeks ago. Since they are a 'delicate' fish....I decided to do an observation quarantine. I did treat with General Cure - no disease obvious - just preventive, the first week they were in QT.

Everyone was doing fine....eating well....Then 3.5 weeks in, all 3 showed signs of ICK...confirmed here on R2R. The advice was to start Copper asap....Which I did. Ramped up to 2ppm of Coppersafe checked via Hanna. 2 of the Anthias were not taking well to it from the beginning, and over the course of 7 days, 2 of them quit eating and died. This third one was still eating at first, but then quit eating just like the others....She still looked healthy, so I decided to stop the copper and switch to the TTM - fearing the Copper was slowing doing her in. She handled the tank transfer well, and started eating again. I've been religious about keeping each transfer to 72 hours, and disinfecting all equipment for the other bucket, and allowing to dry before the next transfer. She's been through 4 transfers so far. Then yesterday...she quit eating, and now looks like she has something going on. I'm at my wits end about how to help her, and at least come out of this experience with one healthy fish.

Here is a video:


I'm looking for what else to do?

So when I’m treating sick fish I try to take two approaches simultaneously.

Treat the illness or parasite appropriately.

Reduce stress

Although moving fish from tank to tank every couple days can work. I personally just treat the fish in one tank, keep them as happy as possible, feed relatively heavy with multivitamins etc. keep up with water changes, and maintain medication levels (assuming the medication allows for water changes, with copper you can do water changes )

I also think it’s important to pick a path and stick with it. Sometimes when fish are getting better they’ll look worse before they get better, other times they just won’t make it.

With a high metabolism fish like anthias you need them eating to make it, I would try loading the tank with pods, maybe even live brine shrimp and rotifers, and plankton just to make an attempt at getting them to eat something.

I haven’t tried anthias, but my harlequin tusk that came in sick wouldn’t eat, and live food was the way to get him eating while I treated him for the multitude of illnesses he had. (It was about everything he could have had)

in summary, I recommend treating with copper, make sure there are places in the tank for the fish to hide and feel safe, but not so hidden that you can’t observe.

good luck, keep us posted!!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Although susceptible to uronema, this looks like brooklynella which also affects them

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Agree with @vetteguy53081 this could be Brooklynella. That would explain why the copper and TTM didn't work. It is unfortunate, but many fish coming through the supply chain pick up multiple diseases. You may have been chasing ich, and now there is this issue. Do you have access to formalin? That can be used in conjunction with TTM to clear this, but I will add that the fish may be too infected at this point....


Jay

 

[clhardy5]

Agree with @vetteguy53081 this could be Brooklynella. That would explain why the copper and TTM didn't work. It is unfortunate, but many fish coming through the supply chain pick up multiple diseases. You may have been chasing ich, and now there is this issue. Do you have access to formalin? That can be used in conjunction with TTM to clear this, but I will add that the fish may be too infected at this point....


Jay

I really do appreciate everyone's help with this mess. It's been frustrating....sad....and expensive. I do not think I have access to formalin. I see I can purchase it online - but I fear that would take too long - not sure what that looks like to buy from local sources - and of course we're having a snow storm today :-(. . Humblefish recommended a dip, and then Metro.....I do have access to that (or will after work today). So I'm going to give it a go. She looked better after the dip last night and is still alive....Here's hoping!

 

[clhardy5]

I really do appreciate everyone's help with this mess. It's been frustrating....sad....and expensive. I do not think I have access to formalin. I see I can purchase it online - but I fear that would take too long - not sure what that looks like to buy from local sources - and of course we're having a snow storm today :-(. . Humblefish recommended a dip, and then Metro.....I do have access to that (or will after work today). So I'm going to give it a go. She looked better after the dip last night and is still alive....Here's hoping!

Just updating here so I can keep a log.....Moved her for the last TTM into a sterile 10 gallon QT. She looked so much better after the H2O2 bath. Her 'skin' looked normal. She is till not eating....So I put some Tigger Copepods Into the QT (I grow my own)....and this evening started the first dose of Metro. I also acquired some amino acids to add to her food. I'll add that to Mysis tomorrow and see if I can encourage her to eat.

 

[Hydrahawk]

Try putting a powerhead on one side of the tank to get the food moving. I have two Dispar in my 40 breeder QT and I have a MP10 on one side. I will crank up the flow when I feed them (cyclops, calanus, minced mysis).

 

[clhardy5]

4 17 Update. She is still not eating....but does look a little better. I am worried about the not eating part. I tried mixing Mysis with garlic - but she didn't even look at it. I'll put in more pods later. She just hangs out at the bottom corner of the QT, and appears to be breathing hard. I lowered the salinity a bit (1.022) over the course of the last 18 hours, and am keeping the water a little cooler (76). I'm hoping the 'shock' of moving into yet another new place last night is what's keeping her a little stressed, and by this evening she will start showing some interest in food. I will also try the power head thing.

Female Anthias 4 17

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just a question: peroxide dips are not a “one and done” treatment, they are more of a temporary treatment unless you move the fish into a fresh tank each time. You saw some improvement after the dip, have you considered repeating that daily? What concentration did you use?
Jay

 

[clhardy5]

Just a question: peroxide dips are not a “one and done” treatment, they are more of a temporary treatment unless you move the fish into a fresh tank each time. You saw some improvement after the dip, have you considered repeating that daily? What concentration did you use?
Jay

I use 3%, and dosed 5mls in 4 cups of salt water, and then moved her to a fresh tank....and dosed with metro - which I planned on redosing every 48 hours Should I keep doing H2O2 until I can get formalin? How often?

Edited to add....Just got off the phone with my LFS - still looking for formalin locally (no luck)....but he thought the pictures might be a bacterial infection - since I've had the fish for 6 weeks - in QT with no new fish added...His thought was that Brook didn't seem likely. Is that also a possibility? I just want to make sure I'm treating the correct way. This poor fish has been through so much already.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ack! My nightmare calculation! Percentage, metric and English measure all in one!

Noga says 38 ml of 3% peroxide per gallon is 300 ppm. That means that a 75 ppm solution would be around 9.8 ml. This is the 30 minute dip for velvet. Your dose was half that, did you dip longer than 30 minutes?

Jay

 

[clhardy5]

Ack! My nightmare calculation! Percentage, metric and English measure all in one!

Noga says 38 ml of 3% peroxide per gallon is 300 ppm. That means that a 75 ppm solution would be around 9.8 ml. This is the 30 minute dip for velvet. Your dose was half that, did you dip longer than 30 minutes?

Jay

LOL...on the units . I kept her in it for...30 minutes. I got the 'recipe' off of Humblefish's site. H2O2 Recipe Did I mess up? Should I redo at a higher strength?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

LOL...on the units . I kept her in it for...30 minutes. I got the 'recipe' off of Humblefish's site. H2O2 Recipe Did I mess up? Should I redo at a higher strength?

No, I think I may have dropped a decimal. I ran the calcs again and that seems fine. I don't see any bacterial infection here, but maybe?

Jay

 

[clhardy5]

She didn't make it. Died this evening. Mouth wide open - It looked strange. She was still hiding at the bottom this evening when we went to supper....came home, and she had passed.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

She didn't make it. Died this evening. Mouth wide open - It looked strange. She was still hiding at the bottom this evening when we went to supper....came home, and she had passed.

Did it die after giving it another peroxide dip? The open mouth dying is often a symptom of Uronema, I don't know why that happens because Uronema doesn't really infect the fish's gills.

Jay

 

[clhardy5]

Did it die after giving it another peroxide dip? The open mouth dying is often a symptom of Uronema, I don't know why that happens because Uronema doesn't really infect the fish's gills.

Jay

Nope. She was fine after the peroxide dip. Still hanging out in the corner. It almost looked like she was having hard time swimming. She would move an inch at a time, and then stop. Still not eating. I left to go to a birthday dinner for my daughter, came back, and she was gone. Mouth wide open, and one of the gills flared.

 

[Peng1606]

Looks like when fish die from uronema. Have had multiple deaths of chromis and anthias over last 2 years from uronema.
Have only been successful recently when I got fish shipped direct from Bali and didn’t go in to any wholesalers tank. Received 9 anthias, and 8 blue green chromis and 8 blackbar chromis... of which I lost 2 blackbar due to shipping stress. Formalin + acriflavine bath, and copper with high dose metronidazole in quarantine... and they have almost completed quarantine.