Sick Melanurus Wrasse and Yellow Tang

Discussion in 'Tank Emergency' started by HumuhumuFan, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    Update: both fish are still alive and the wrasse has become more active and is showing interest in GarlicGuard soaked pellets. This morning I did up a batch of pellets, Focus, Kanaplex and let soak really well.

    So at this point they've had 2 treatments of General Cure, a full cycle of Furan-2 and full cycle of Kanaplex. Should I repeat the treatments or let them recover a bit without dosing more meds?
     

  2. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    I would do 14 days total of the furan-2 and kanaplex in the water. Antibiotics are very slow-acting in fish...if the wrasse is finally starting to perk up, I’d hate to remove them too soon and have him slide back downhill.

    I’d focus on getting him to eat mostly at this point. The kanaplex in the food might help for internal infection, but probably wouldn’t be as helpful as having it in the water column like it already is.

    I think I’d actually try soaking general cure rather than kanaplex if anything, to remove any intestinal worms/parasites that could be present.

    After 14 days of antibiotics, I’d remove the meds in the water column and continue just food soaking GC for at least 10 days.

    I’m glad they are hanging in there! Good work!
     
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  3. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    Sounds like a plan, thanks for all of your help!
     
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  4. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    Just as quickly as he improved, he went back downhill. Yesterday he was swimming strangely almost like he was just floating around the tank. Today he made a very half-hearted effort to eat but so weak he got stuck briefly to the powerhead. I quickly did the scheduled water change for today and added the meds but he was starting to twitch and by the time I decided it was time to let go he had made the decision for me. Rest in peace little wrasse, I hope you enjoyed your time here.
     
  5. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    I couldn't like your update, I'm sorry you lost him. You did everything you could... :(
     
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  6. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    Thanks, and thank you for your help. Going forward I will be much quicker to initiate treatment if I notice lack of appetite and weight loss.
     
  7. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    Of a more immediate concern is the yellow tang. His fin looks like it grew back and his color looks much better. Although that could be the Furan just making him look more yellow. I’m hesitant to give him a clean bill of health because he still won’t eat nori. I’ve tried several different kinds from sushi type to 2 Little Fish.
     
  8. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    Here are some pictures of the tang. The miscolored area at the base of his dorsal fin is what concerns me most, based on looking around the internet I'm thinking it is bacterial in nature.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    To make matters worse, I am also containing an ammonia spike. I think that is what finished off the wrasse. Possibly fueled by die-off from the sand I put in the tank for the wrasse, or I was overfeeding trying to get the wrasse to recover. In any case, I think he was too far gone anyways. I don't think G.C., Furan, Kanaplex or Melafix would cause a false positive on ammonia.
     
  9. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    The research I’ve seen recommends Maracyn 2 for this type of infection. Will Kanaplex, GC, and/or Furan2 be ineffective against it?
     
  10. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Are you still running the kanaplex + Furan-2 now? How many days has it been? I wouldn’t keep going with GC just because of the prazi, but if you have metroplex or metro+ you could add that in as well.

    Have you tried any type of bath to slow it down? Acriflavine is my preference (ruby reef rally or API fungus cure contain it) I would do that first, a 90-minute bath in a separate container using clean saltwater. I use a 5-gallon bucket, with a small tetra heater and airline.

    Alternatively, MB (methylene blue) is an antiseptic as well and may also help reverse damage from ammonia poisoning. 30-minute bath for MB.

    I also think I would source Nitrofurazone Green at this point. Keep going with the current antibiotics until you receive it. These stubborn bacterial infections can be tricky to get ahead of.

    @HotRocks @4FordFamily @BigG

    For extra eyes...
     
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  11. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    I dont really have much to add to this excellent post!

    I can only stress the importance of discontinuing the use of GC and sourcing NFG. NFG would be the best thing to use here after an antiseptic bath.
     
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  12. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    Thank you both. I did 13 days of Furan-2, and 10 days of Kanaplex, with 2 treatments of GC interspersed in that timespan.

    Yesterday would have been day 14 of Furan but I opted to take a day off in light of the possible ammonia spike and the accompanying 50% water change I did in response.

    I went out and bought one of the ammonia alert stick on things just for added insurance.
     
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  13. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Hospitality Award Expert Contributor

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    And I will also concur 100% here. NFG for the win.
     
  14. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    Would using the Furan I have on hand plus API Triple Sulfa and Kordon Methylene Blue be as effective as NFG? That would seem to cover the ingredients minus regular salt at about 1/10th of the price. It would also get here much faster since that stuff is Prime eligible on Amazon.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  15. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    That would probably be a good question for @Humblefish, since I'm personally not sure if there would be any caveats to using those all together. There could be "inactive" ingredients to take into account, or the active ingredients might be in different doses/ratios, etc.
     
  16. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    When I got home the ammonia monitor was showing 0.05 or "Alert" so I did another 25% water change. I did a 50% the day before and a 25% the day before that. The API kit is still showing at least 2.0!!! I'm sure it's getting a false positive from one of the meds or the dose of prime I did the day I discovered it. I know the kit isn't bad because it reads 0.0 on a freshwater tank I just setup. Still, I've done a total of 100% water change over the last 72 hours so I don't think its the Prime which was added before the water changes.

    This is my first time running a hospital tank that I'm both dosing with antibiotics and trying to feed fish aggressively in. It has a sponge filter with sponges that were hanging out in my canister filter for a week before setting the tank up. I'm guessing the antibiotics nuked the biofilter and I should have been more vigilant for an ammonia spike. Lesson learned, those ammonia monitors are worth it on QT tanks are worth it. I'm sorry that my fish are the ones that pay the price for these lessons, I will try to learn from this and be a better aquarist.
     
  17. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    I just did another 50% water change this morning. API kit reads .50 ppm AFTER the water change. The stick-on ammonia monitor reads 0. Each water change I vacuum out anything I see and the wrasse was removed immediately after he died. I guess for a control expirement I could add a tiny bit of the medicines to a cup of freshly made saltwater and test it.

    The tang hasn't eaten since the wrasse died and looks very stressed. I'm sure the water changes aren't helping but I didn't want to risk not doing them in case the ammonia really was that high.
     
  18. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    Update: I did the acriflavine bath just now with API Fungus Cure. I used a black bucket and noticed white specs in the bottom after, I moved them to a container to take a picture.
    [​IMG]
    I wonder if they are random sand grains that got caught in the net when I was catching him (QT is bare bottom but there is a little sand in there from when I had a container of it for the wrasse), or flukes/parasites? He actually looks much less stressed than he did before the dip, which is really surprising to me.
     
  19. HumuhumuFan

    HumuhumuFan Member

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    I think the emergency phase of this has passed, although I wasn't able to save the wrasse I do appreciate the help.

    Big thanks to @ngoodermuth @HotRocks @4FordFamily

    If I have anymore questions with the tang, I'll post in the disease forums. He is eating the Hikari Spirulina Brine Shrimp with gusto, but ignoring everything else (nori, mysis, pellets). I did up a batch of several different foods with kanaplex, focus and GarlicGuard. He picked out the brine shrimp but ignored the mysis. He may have eaten some of the Hikari Mega Marine Algae but that stuff seems to melt to nothing when it thaws, so who knows.
     
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