Sickly Porcupine Puffer

thedraque

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Hello, I need advice as my wife and I have tried everything and dont know what else to try.
We purchased a sick Porcupine Puffer from a LFS 8 days ago who had obvious ICH, probably flukes, and looked skinny.
We put him in a 10 gallon quarantine with cycled sponge filters and a 78 degree heater, his salinity at the store was .30 and we brought him down to .24 slowly. Over the last 8 days we have treated him twice with a combination of Paracleanse, Maracyn, and Ich-X. we have offered him medicated (Focus, Garlic Guard, Paracleanse) frozen foods (Krill, bloodworms, clam on the half shell) but he will not eat frozen foods at all. We have offered him maybe 10-12 live ghost shrimp over the 8 days and he has eaten maybe 4-5 of the shrimp. so his appetite has been of concern to us.
We performed a 50% water change last night. This morning we found him just sitting on the bottom respirating heavily, so we added two more airstones to the water but he doesnt look good does anyone have any more suggestions of things we can try to save this fish?

 
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Jay Hemdal

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Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Sorry - your video is too dark for me to make anything out really. I've never used Paracleanse, but I looked into it, and it has the same ingredients as APA General Cure - metronidazole and praziquantel, at the same dose.

Working in the dark here (grin), I would say that if the fish does have ich, you need to get that taken care of right away. None of the meds you've used so far are primary treatments for marine ich. Your two best options would be hyposalinity or copper. I know a lot of people shy away from copper with porcupines, but that is based on old issues with ionic copper. I have a porcupine puffer in full Coppersafe right now and it is fine. With a good test kit, you would be able to treat it with either Coppersafe or Copper Power. That said, once ich has a head start like in this case, treatments don't always work as well as they would when caught early on.


Jay
 
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thedraque

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Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Sorry - your video is too dark for me to make anything out really. I've never used Paracleanse, but I looked into it, and it has the same ingredients as APA General Cure - metronidazole and praziquantel, at the same dose.

Working in the dark here (grin), I would say that if the fish does have ich, you need to get that taken care of right away. None of the meds you've used so far are primary treatments for marine ich. Your two best options would be hyposalinity or copper. I know a lot of people shy away from copper with porcupines, but that is based on old issues with ionic copper. I have a porcupine puffer in full Coppersafe right now and it is fine. With a good test kit, you would be able to treat it with either Coppersafe or Copper Power. That said, once ich has a head start like in this case, treatments don't always work as well as they would when caught early on.


Jay

Thank you for your response,

Ich-x claims to treat marine ich and he has no visible ich after two treatments, the tank is now free of medication. We have Cupramine on hand do you think we should try that now? or is it too late?
 

Jay Hemdal

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Thank you for your response,

Ich-x claims to treat marine ich and he has no visible ich after two treatments, the tank is now free of medication. We have Cupramine on hand do you think we should try that now? or is it too late?

I know that Ich-x is sold as a marine fish medication, but the ingredients are really better suited for freshwater fish. If you are not seeing any ich spots, then perhaps wait a bit, but be prepared to dose with copper if they return.

Jay
 
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thedraque

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I know that Ich-x is sold as a marine fish medication, but the ingredients are really better suited for freshwater fish. If you are not seeing any ich spots, then perhaps wait a bit, but be prepared to dose with copper if they return.

Jay
I was not aware that Ich-X isnt good for Marine Ich, thanks for that info.

He is still alive today, he is still sitting on bottom respirating but he is respirating much slower than yesterday, my wife says she observed his mucuous coming off his body a bit
 
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jasonrusso

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He passed away this evening unfortunately.
Sorry for your loss. Porcupines are the best! They are as close to a pet as you can get without fur.

FWIW, I have only used Chloroquine Phosphate with my puffers. Cured a bad case of velvet. It cures Ich, velvet, and I believe brook. I have never heard good stories using either kind of copper.

Puffers also have a tendency to get internal parasites, that could explain the lack of appetite. Also, hyposalinity causes appetite suppression.
 
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thedraque

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Sorry for your loss. Porcupines are the best! They are as close to a pet as you can get without fur.

FWIW, I have only used Chloroquine Phosphate with my puffers. Cured a bad case of velvet. It cures Ich, velvet, and I believe brook. I have never heard good stories using either kind of copper.

Puffers also have a tendency to get internal parasites, that could explain the lack of appetite. Also, hyposalinity causes appetite suppression.
Yeah we have several species of puffer and we always use medicated food to treat the internals. What product is Chloroquine Phosphate? what company/brand sells it?
 

jasonrusso

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Yeah we have several species of puffer and we always use medicated food to treat the internals. What product is Chloroquine Phosphate? what company/brand sells it?
I get if from National Fish Pharmaceutical. 100g will last forever, lol. Dr. Fishman (owner) said it doesn't expire if stored properly. I believe that Ick Shield is the same thing, but you can't find it anywhere.

https://nationalfishpharm.ishopserver.com/NFP-products-Chloroquine-Phosphate-59567.Item.html

 

ReefHog

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I get if from National Fish Pharmaceutical. 100g will last forever, lol. Dr. Fishman (owner) said it doesn't expire if stored properly. I believe that Ick Shield is the same thing, but you can't find it anywhere.

https://nationalfishpharm.ishopserver.com/NFP-products-Chloroquine-Phosphate-59567.Item.html

Have you ordered from NFP recently? I believe he had to stop selling CP in the spring due to circumstances related to Covid19. I was lucky enough to get a new 100g pack from him last December.
 

jasonrusso

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Have you ordered from NFP recently? I believe he had to stop selling CP in the spring due to circumstances related to Covid19. I was lucky enough to get a new 100g pack from him last December.
I haven't, but it doesn't say it's out of stock. The malaria warning has been there for years.

Contact him and see what's up.
 

Jay Hemdal

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I get if from National Fish Pharmaceutical. 100g will last forever, lol. Dr. Fishman (owner) said it doesn't expire if stored properly. I believe that Ick Shield is the same thing, but you can't find it anywhere.

https://nationalfishpharm.ishopserver.com/NFP-products-Chloroquine-Phosphate-59567.Item.html

Fishman Chemical removed chloroquine from their web page earlier in the year due to concerns that it was being diverted to "treat" Covid. I've only found one current source for it, and at that, it is mixed with another compound. You can try searching Google for "Marex". I asked the owner of that company if they had access to more chloroquine, and got a vague answer, so my guess is they will soon run out as well (they were likely getting their bulk powder from Fishman).

Jay
 

jasonrusso

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Fishman Chemical removed chloroquine from their web page earlier in the year due to concerns that it was being diverted to "treat" Covid. I've only found one current source for it, and at that, it is mixed with another compound. You can try searching Google for "Marex". I asked the owner of that company if they had access to more chloroquine, and got a vague answer, so my guess is they will soon run out as well (they were likely getting their bulk powder from Fishman).

Jay
Fishman and NFP are the same company. I called Fishman Chem years ago. He told me to order from NFP for smaller quantities.

All I know is that it is currently on the website. I didn't try to order it.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Run a search here for fishman chemical, in September, there was a post linking to a FDA warning letter sent to him. Further down in the letter, it references another letter from the FDA warning him to stop selling chloroquine. I’m afraid we won’t have chloroquine in our arsenal of fish meds.
Jay
 

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