So ICH management it is, I guess

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by rockstarta78, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Active Member

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    Last night, I noticed my ocellaris acting odd, seems like she was rubbing on a patch of algae. I've been fighting GHA lately, which is going away slowly. Anyway, so while watching the female ocellaris rub against the patch of algae few times, I also noticed that the royal gramma was darting in and out of his cave. Further observation revealed the gramma scratching on rock. Needless to say on top of GHA, now I believe I have ICH. All these fishes have been in my tank for about 2 years or little longer.

    1. I wonder why the ICH is showing up all of a sudden after 2 years. Maybe I have always had ICH but something caused the symptom to flare up?!?!

    2. The heater is acting funny and due to this insane cold weather temp keeps fluctuating between 78 ~ 76. Can that cause ICH?

    I also think the purple firefish has ich as well as the YWG (tho I hardly ever see the goby). There is no way I can catch all these fishes without breaking down the tank. I think the only ones I can catch are the pair of Ocellaris.

    So instead of ICH eradication I guess I have to resort to ICH management! Unless you fine folks no of any magic pills that work in the DT (wouldn't it be nice if there was one).

    So my plan is as follows (please feel free to chime in and suggest anything that wouldn't require me to break down the tank):

    --> Feed heavy (there goes GHA removal plan)
    --> get a 2nd heater to stabilize the temp fluctuation
    --> Stop feeding pallets since they sink quick with Selcon/Garlic (I know garlic is debate-able)
    --> Feed frozen with Selcon AND Garlic.
    --> During work hour use auto feeder to feed pallet to increase food uptake (again, welcome back GHA)
    --> Continue to observe (along with hope and pray)

    P.S. There are NO VISIBLE sign of ICH or anything on these fishes. So I am assuming the infected areas are under the gill right now. Hopefully it doesn't spread.
     
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  2. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Active Member

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    Oh forgot to ask should I catch the Ocellaris pair and treat them with copper in a QT tank while trying to manage ICH in the DT?
     
  3. Josh Kraft

    Josh Kraft Active Member

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    You could try using some traps and treat all your fish. Based on what I read, it looks like capturing them all is your issue, if you have a QT some traps should make quick work of getting everything out of your DT.
     
  4. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Don’t feed heavy. Feed healthfully.
    Rotate frozen foods.

    Probably stop the pellets. Period.
    I’ve never fed them. I feed frozen once a day.

    Yes , get temp under control.

    Have you added new coral or macro? It is weird it would pop up like that.

    Add a few drops of garlic to the frozen. Easy button.
     
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  5. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Active Member

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    Catching them would have been the absolute easiest way to treat this fish. I could just leave them in copper for 6 weeks and be done with it. BUT I doubt the YWG or the Gramma (mine is really shy) would go anywhere near a trap. Plus, with me being out for almost 10-12hrs a day I don't know how that would work with the trap. But that would have made my life lot easier.
     
  6. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Are you going for irradiacation?
    You’ll be putting Thank back into a mangagement tank no?
     
  7. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Active Member

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    That's the odd part. Haven't added anything in last 4-5 months. I really have no clue where this came from.
     
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  8. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Active Member

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    Yes so I guess catching them defeats the purpose. :(
     
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  9. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Build Thread Contributor

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    So it might not be anything.

    I would observe more and formulate the plan.
    It’s pretty unusual to have a flare up like that.
     
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  10. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Active Member

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    Oh wait! I lied, this totally skipped me. I added a cleaner shrimp about 2 months ago. Which died within the last couple of days. I attributed that to the temp fluctuation. But that was almost 2 months ago. Now I am confused. Wonder if they shrimp came from a ICH infested system.
     
  11. saltyfilmfolks

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    It’s a good possibility. Yes.
    But it def should have presented sooner I belive
     
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  12. dansreef

    dansreef Active Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Dang... so sorry to hear about the GHA and the Ich outbreak. A couple of thoughts:
    a) Your eradication of the GHA coupled with the flux in temp has created some stress in your tank as you hadn't mentioned any new fish intros into the tank. Chances are this has caused some stress... I would suggest fixing the flux in temps..... and stopping any manual removal of GHA ....to see if the stress relief will help some. I am convinced ICH resides in more of our tanks and is kept in check with good health and low stress for the fish. Of course... I am sure there will be a differing opinion here.... :)
    b) Try feeding your fish Dr G's Anti-Parasitic Caviar... http://www.drgsmarineaquaculture.com/anti-parasitic-caviar-detail.cfm I have used it in two instances... one with introductions of anthias into my system. They have a bad habit of coming with internal parasites.... and once with an outbreak of ICH. Feed it slowly to your fish. For me it worked. For others.... not so much.
    c) I know a lot of people knock garlic... I will use it whenever I can. I actually need to buy some... I have seen issues resolve using it. Does it eliminate Ich... don't know. Again... it worked for me.

    I wouldn't remove your fish... the added stress of moving them to a hospital tank and then having them sit in it for an extended period of time..... may end up doing more harm...not to mention what it will do to your tank to tear it apart to get all the fish. See if you can eliminate the stress. See if you can get them to eat garlic infused food. See if you can get them to eat this anti-parasitic caviar. Leave them where they are and monitor.
     
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  13. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Active Member

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    I guess I need to setup a QT tank for inverts as well. I'd be heart broken if I lose any of these fishes. I know these fishes are dime a dozen, but my fishes are mine and have been with me for 2+ years.
     
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  14. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Active Member

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    Thank you. I will look into the Caviar. These fishes are eating very well. I soaked some mysis in garlic with salcon last night and they accepted it without any hesitation. I just ordered a new heater which should be here on Wednesday. Hopefully I have enough time to add the new heater. What I am not getting is, if removing GHA would actually cause stress to the fishes. :(
     
  15. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Def understood.
    Also look at your ammoina and ph. And consider your oxygen levels.

    If you have a cube let’s say , and now the house is closed up more. Feeding uneaten pellets decomposing in the tank. Etc.
     
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  16. dansreef

    dansreef Active Member Build Thread Contributor

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    My apologies.... I assumed you were using manual removal as part of your GHA eradication. I usually do. That means time with my hands in the tank pulling green stuff out. My thought was to stop doing that as it may be stressing the fish out.
     
  17. dansreef

    dansreef Active Member Build Thread Contributor

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    I would also check on this too. Perhaps there is a water parameter that is causing stress.... which is causing the outbreak. I am not a fan of pellets.... I only sparingly feed them.
     
  18. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Active Member

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    That's a very good point. With the weather being so called, the house has been pretty well closed up. It wouldn't surprise me if the O2 level is really low. I do have 2 powerheads and a skimmer running. I am seriously thinking about a CO2 scrubber. My pH usually stays between 7.9 ~ 8.1. Haven't tested ammonia since the tank finished cycling about 3 years ago. I will test that tonight. If it shows ammonia, that will be very disturbing.
     
  19. Maggie321

    Maggie321 Active Member

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    This has nothing to do with the ich directly... But indirectly, kind of. The GHA, I know the fluconazole treatment is for bryopsis, but quite a few have reported it taking out GHA with a longer treatment period. You may want to look into that.

    I think if I was facing an ich outbreak and GHA, I would trap and remove all the fish, leave the inverts (it's my understanding that ich doesn't use inverts as a host).

    Treat the fish with either copper or TTM the fish and leave them in QT for the recommended amount of time (what is it, 67 days or something?).

    While fish are in QT, treat the tank for GHA, whether that's with fluconazole or other treatment like starving it out (make that CUC do their job!), vodka, peroxide, blackout... whatever the method you decide.

    My thought is to divide and conquer.
     
  20. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Active Member

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    Thank you. If I try to catch all these fishes, I'd have to breakdown the tank. If I breakdown the tank, I could just bleach the rock to get rid of GHA, wash the sand and scrub the sump. That would also get rid of all the vermitid snails from the rock. BUT the issue is, I'd have to recycle the tank. and keeping all these fishes in a 10g tank would be hard.

    I have quite a few fluconazzole in hand. if I only had the time, I'd probably breakdown the tank. Question is, will that be worth it? Once I see the fishes are acting better, maybe I will give fluconazzole a shot. I'd be interested to see if it actually works on GHA.
     
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