So ICH management it is, I guess

[Maggie321]

Thank you. If I try to catch all these fishes, I'd have to breakdown the tank. If I breakdown the tank, I could just bleach the rock to get rid of GHA, wash the sand and scrub the sump. That would also get rid of all the vermitid snails from the rock. BUT the issue is, I'd have to recycle the tank. and keeping all these fishes in a 10g tank would be hard.

I have quite a few fluconazzole in hand. if I only had the time, I'd probably breakdown the tank. Question is, will that be worth it? Once I see the fishes are acting better, maybe I will give fluconazzole a shot. I'd be interested to see if it actually works on GHA.

Definately read up, you know the drill.

You could get a couple Rubbermaid totes and do the TTM then when you're done with that, keep them in the tote for some time. They don't need glass walls. I really would trap them. At least give it a week. Don't feed them a couple days and bait the trap...

 

[coweyes298]

Maybe the fish just got skin irritation and rubbing? What is the frequency of the rubbing? If you don't observe any dots that might not be ich...

Anyway, best way to get rid of ich and GHA together is take all fish out. I did it last time by taking all the fish out and treated them, along with taking all the rocks out and spray/scrub with hydrogen peroxide. This way you don't have to tear down all the stuff and bleach, you just treat fish in QT and let DT being fishless for 76 days.

Remember to QT anything wet as well (coral/inverts/CUC)

 

[coweyes298]

By the way, H2O2 works perfectly for getting rid of GHA. Take the rocks out, spray and leave the rocks there for several minutes and scrub it after. Rinse with SW and put it back to DT. GHA will die overnight.

 

[Empress]

Are your fish still scratching? If so for how long now? Do you see any spots? If not, it could be you have flukes. Prazipro eradicated flukes.

 

[madweazl]

The temperature change wouldn't kill the shrimp, that was caused by something else. Temperature swings can induce some stress, so that could have been a contributing factor to the fish succumbing to the parasite. If you're feeding less to combat the GHA, that would have been another contributing factor for the ich. I think it's pretty rare for a single factor to cause turmoil within the tank, it's usually a number of factors that are less than ideal that lead chaos.

A quality frozen food (i.e. LRS) will likely provide the best results in regard to a healthy diet. As for the heater, it may not be a case of the heater being too small, it's possible that the thermostat on the heater is failing or wasn't very good to begin with (some are terrible, some are great). Is the heater set to 78°? How low are the ambient temps in the room where the tank is located? Four watts per gallon has been enough to heat my tank 15° above ambient without issue. Lastly, a controller (e.g. Ranco, Inkbird, or something more advanced like an Apex) can help mitigate temp fluctuations provided the heater is large enough for the environment.

To put it into perspective, I'd rather have healthy fish with some GHA. Once the fish are back to normal, I'd tackle the GHA with something made for the job. Starving the fish inst the answer.

 

[rockstarta78]

Last night after I got home I fed with selcon and garlic soaked Mysis. All fishes took the food like there's no tomorrow. The purple firefish has always been finicky so he/she ate a little as well. The scratching/flashing is sporadic, but I noticed that a lot 2 nights ago. Last night I watched for about 30 minutes, there were one scratching within that time. All fishes look healthy, no marking on their body.

I was not worried about having marks on their body. My worry is, whatever it is that was bothering them is under the gill which I can't see. So I stopped feeding pallet and only feeding selcon/garlic infused mysis. I am hoping this will boost their immune system. I should also get my heater today, which should stabilize the temp fluctuation.

Are your fish still scratching? If so for how long now? Do you see any spots? If not, it could be you have flukes. Prazipro eradicated flukes.

I doubt it's fluke. Not saying that's impossible, but I don't see how they would get fluke. These fishes been in this tank for over 2 years and no new fishes has been added in about 2 years. I think (now I could be wrong tho) this is stress related. Unless stress causes fluke, then you probably have a point.

@coweyes298 I was actually tempted to breakdown the tank, treat the rock outside the tank with muratic acid and get rid of GHA + vermitid snails while I treat all these fishes in copper for 6 weeks. Issue with that is, if I do "clean" the rock, I am going to have to cycle the tank again, which I do not want to do at this point, since it will take a year for these rocks to mature. Don't get me wrong, the idea of treating them outside the tank is very tempting, but knowing me, I won't just use H2O2, I'd use bleach or acid to wash because I'd want the vermitid gone as well.

 

[rockstarta78]

The temperature change wouldn't kill the shrimp, that was caused by something else. Temperature swings can induce some stress, so that could have been a contributing factor to the fish succumbing to the parasite. If you're feeding less to combat the GHA, that would have been another contributing factor for the ich. I think it's pretty rare for a single factor to cause turmoil within the tank, it's usually a number of factors that are less than ideal that lead chaos.

A quality frozen food (i.e. LRS) will likely provide the best results in regard to a healthy diet. As for the heater, it may not be a case of the heater being too small, it's possible that the thermostat on the heater is failing or wasn't very good to begin with (some are terrible, some are great). Is the heater set to 78°? How low are the ambient temps in the room where the tank is located? Four watts per gallon has been enough to heat my tank 15° above ambient without issue. Lastly, a controller (e.g. Ranco, Inkbird, or something more advanced like an Apex) can help mitigate temp fluctuations provided the heater is large enough for the environment.

To put it into perspective, I'd rather have healthy fish with some GHA. Once the fish are back to normal, I'd tackle the GHA with something made for the job. Starving the fish inst the answer.

I think you pointed out something that I totally ignored. The less feeding to battle GHA was a good catch. Thank you for that. I totally forgot about that part. I stopped feeding pallet and now strictly feeding PE Mysis plus no more less-feeding to combat GHA. Honestly, I will deal with the GHA other ways. I rather get my fishes healthy and fat before worrying about some algae that can be managed by doing some frequent water change and some elbow grease.

My tank is in the basement, the ambient temp in my basement gets down to mid 60s. The heater I have is Eheim. I picked the one that's 5 watts per gallon. Maybe I should re-calibrate the heater. But now having 2 heater would be better tho. As for controller goes, I know I REALLY should invest in one. I was thinking for my next build, which I don't think is going to happen for at least a year or so.

 

[madweazl]

If nothing else, check out the Ranco or Inkbird, they're cheap insurance for heaters.

 

[rockstarta78]

If nothing else, check out the Ranco or Inkbird, they're cheap insurance for heaters.

Actually after reading your post, I looked at the Ranco. Since I am getting a finnex titanium heater with controller, do you think I should still get a Ranco?

 

[madweazl]

My opinion is that all heaters should be on an external controller. I'm not sure there is a reason to change your current heater though.

 

[Josh Kraft]

Actually after reading your post, I looked at the Ranco. Since I am getting a finnex titanium heater with controller, do you think I should still get a Ranco?

I run a finnix with a controller and an inkbird. I set the finnix controller at about 82, and the inkbird at what I actually want. This way if the inkbird for some reason gets stuck on, the finnix will stop it at 82 (hopefully). Doubly fail safe and hopefully 82 wouldn't cause much damage.

 

[rockstarta78]

My opinion is that all heaters should be on an external controller. I'm not sure there is a reason to change your current heater though.

Not really changing it, just adding a 2nd one for redundancy.

 

[rockstarta78]

I run a finnix with a controller and an inkbird. I set the finnix controller at about 82, and the inkbird at what I actually want. This way if the inkbird for some reason gets stuck on, the finnix will stop it at 82 (hopefully). Doubly fail safe and hopefully 82 wouldn't cause much damage.

I like that idea. Double redundancy. Can you run two heaters on Inkbird?

 

[Josh Kraft]

You could plug a surge protector / splitter into the heater port. It has 1 outlet for heater and 1 for chiller.

 

[Paul B]

The 2 degrees difference did not cause anything. My tank has been swinging way more than that for decades. I also would not add garlic or anything else to frozen food as you are wasting your time and money. Anything you add to wet or frozen foods will wash off as soon as it hits the water and may help grow your algae.
I would also throw out any dry foods or flakes which are sterile. Only feed foods with living bacteria like frozen foods. But I also would not only use commercially available frozen fish foods because they may have been frozen for months or even thawed out and the living bacteria may be dead. Suppliment that with clams that you buy live and freeze yourself or better yet, live blackworms or live white worms. My fish have been immune for over 35 years on that diet and I never had a sick fish in that time.
Good luck

 

[rockstarta78]

The 2 degrees difference did not cause anything. My tank has been swinging way more than that for decades. I also would not add garlic or anything else to frozen food as you are wasting your time and money. Anything you add to wet or frozen foods will wash off as soon as it hits the water and may help grow your algae.
I would also throw out any dry foods or flakes which are sterile. Only feed foods with living bacteria like frozen foods. But I also would not only use commercially available frozen fish foods because they may have been frozen for months or even thawed out and the living bacteria may be dead. Suppliment that with clams that you buy live and freeze yourself or better yet, live blackworms or live white worms. My fish have been immune for over 35 years on that diet and I never had a sick fish in that time.
Good luck

Thanks you @Paul B I'll look into Clam. All these stores around me sells these chopped up cubed clam that they claim fresh. I guess I could start with that?

 

[LJLKRL05]

I like that idea. Double redundancy. Can you run two heaters on Inkbird?

I have an inkbird that has two outlets that are both controlled by the temp probe. Both are for a heater or whatever you want to control. They both turn on and off at the same time. So yes you can control two heaters with one, you just have to get the right one.
This is the one I got:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01486LZ50/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Josh Kraft]

I have an inkbird that has two outlets that are both controlled by the temp probe. Both are for a heater or whatever you want to control. They both turn on and off at the same time. So yes you can control two heaters with one, you just have to get the right one.
This is the one I got:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01486LZ50/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mine are actually labeled heater / chiller, but I suppose you could configure the temps anyway you want. Probably easier to just configure one and use a surge protector though

 

[Paul B]

Thanks you @Paul B I'll look into Clam. All these stores around me sells these chopped up cubed clam that they claim fresh. I guess I could start with that?

You could, but can you get live very big clams?

 

[Gweeds1980]

Take a read here...

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/310714/