So you want a frog fish; I call them anglers

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,652
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I've kept a few, my first going back 25 years. These are very difficult fish to keep and I am still very frustrated as to the success in keeping these guys long term. I do have some information I would like to share for those interested. Be forewarned, they are not for everyone and do take special care. They are sedentary creatures and are best kept in a species tank, they don't last long in community tanks. For long term success they will need to be fed a live diet. They can eat fish equal to their own size, and if eating too large of fish, they both usually die. Over feeding is a big concern, usually in the form of feeding too often. You don't want to expose to air, as thy can gulp air and it is hard for them expel it, many times dying if it happens.

The most popular of the bunch is the warty, wartskin angler, Antennarius maculatus. My favorite is the painted angler, Antennarius pictus. Some of the others seen around are the giant angler, Antennarius commerson; I see the sargassum and marble mouthed around, as well as the hairy. I would stay away from the pygmy, they never live. Juveniles can sometimes be confused and some are sold as assorted because the supplier is not able to ID them. Here a good reference if you are trying to ID one http://frogfish.ch/species-arten/all-frogfish-species.html

Depending on the species, I prefer tanks from 20-40g. These size tanks help you manage feeding better, and they really are sedentary and do not swim, per se. They have jet packs and may propel themselves from one point or another and I even had one that would swim(kind of) each evening when the whites went off. He would blast off bouncing his feet off the glass and you could see his jet packs pumping from behind his front legs, so funny. They are fine with medium, lps flow, and will find spots to protect themselves if the flow is too much. I also had a warty that would do this kind of floaty thing, where he would float around the tank looking for food, I called it his recon missions. So with too much flow they will just be less active. They also don't care for high light, some even less so and hang out in a cave all day while the whites are on. Some prefer caves, like the painted; so included a cave in their scape is a good thing. Provide some open spaces and different levels of elevation. It is fun to keep them in a reef or a macro tank. They are like chameleons in a sense they will imprint onto their environment. Over time a colorful angler will turn blah if kept in a tank of plain rock. Many of them live among colorful sponges and various colored macros in the wild. So keeping them with similar colored corals or red and orange macro will encourage them to keep their bold colors. I kept one in a tank with Living Color fake corals once and maintained his orange and red coloring.

Feeding, your biggest challenge, never think that you are 100% convert these guys to a dead food only diet. Many just will not accept it from the get go, no matter how you plead. If you do them them to take dead food, they will usually suffer from nutritional deficiencies and be dead within a year. They will never accept the dead foods necessary to provide them with proper nutrition, and supplementation will not help, they likely need the live gut flora and other elements found in live food. Any one telling you are keeping these guys for multiple years feeding them krill and silversides just are not being honest. If they do take dead food it is usually not enough and just wither away, literally starving to death right under your eyes. Some may take dead food for a while, but it is always inevitable, one day they will just stop. Sometimes you can jumpstart them back onto live but most times, if it's been a while, not. Also, you want a bump on a log, basically no different than silicone model, feed them dead on a stick. They will just park themselves into the feeding spot and may never move again until they die. Depending on the species, and mostly based on size; the choices of live food are ghost shrimp, guppies, and mollies. While they can eat very large prey, it is best to feed a few smaller items. It's pretty common if they eat something very large, they end up dying. In the wild they eat on a gorge/fast routine, and in captivity it's best to mimic this schedule. If is an itty bitty guy, I've raised wartys as small as an inch, it's ok to feed every other day. As they row you want to spread their feeding times further and further apart. Once mature a weekly schedule is good, while I have seen every 10 days work. You want to manage their feeding and not just dump a bunch of food in all at once. Feed them until you see a nice bulge in their belly. Feel out their schedule by allowing them to get active, going into hunting mode, before you feed them again. They also poop like dogs, you can literally see the turd on the substrate, paying attention to this also helps you get into their feeding schedule. Feeding too often is bad news, because of their metabolism, the undigested food can start to build up, building up gases in their guts. This can start to indicate by this buoyant type activity, if you see this, stop feeding for a while and start allowing more time between feedings. Magnesium has been known to help with digestion, so at least keep your mg at reef levels, even at 1400ppm is safe for corals and I've found to be beneficial.

If you must house them with tank mates be mindful of a few points. Any tank mates must be larger that the angler, full grown, and you still must get them live food. Do not house them with any aggressive species that may injure or pick on them, even mild mannered fish that nibble. Because of their sedentary nature tangs and angels and such will nibble at them. This will cause them stress or injuries that many times turn into bacterial infections. They will cannibalize each other, and in most cases because of the size of each, they both die. Remember you read it here if you decide to do it anyway, because eventually it will happen. They are ambush predators that do attack and are not fast, they set up shop and wait. I have had damsels and peppermint shrimp live for months before ending up prey. They will watch and maneuver until they catch them one day. I've seen them figure out where someone sleeps and wait outside their hidey hole. This is their nature, it does not waiver if the fish is healthy. You can use fish like damsels as color and movement, but knowing one day they may be food.

They do not tolerate meds and chemicals of any kind. I haven't tried my new method of splitting dosages for internal parasites into thirds; which has worked on some sensitive scorps. At this point I have not seen an angler successfully treated with any med. Getting through treatment doesn't mean success if they die shortly afterwards. But they do come in with internal parasites and if so, will need to be treated. That's where I would break up general cure dosage into 3rds. They can get ick and other protozoan diseases and can not tolerate copper or cp. On some species ick is very hard to see, because some have this fuzzy type of camo. They can live months with ick but will eventually succumb. Never use salt water fish as food because eventually you will spread disease.

I would consider keeping them in lower temps, at least at low end of tropical, maybe even lower if possible. While I haven't seen enough to consider a possible point to keeping them longer, it does have some considerations. Several divers have told me they see them at deeper depths in water under 70 degrees. Think about other species that had a dismal captive lifespan until people figured out they needed lower temp. So far I have one hobbyist keeping her angler at around 72 degrees, and so far she has kept this one twice as long as any others she's ever kept, over 3 years now. She has also followed some my other points with feeding and mg. While I have heard of people keeping them as long as 5 years, I've never met anyone keeping one for even 2 years except the person I just mentioned. I have kept a warty over 3 years and a painted over 3.5 years, that's my best and it's not good enough.

1653179929787.png

1653179972836.png

1653180070236.png
 

Jay Hemdal

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
25,689
Reaction score
25,533
Location
Dundee, MI
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Nice write up!
I don’t think I’ve ever kept one longer than two years. I have used coppersafe on them with no toxicity issues, but I’ve always had issues missing ich on them until it is pretty far advanced. I always screen food items to avoid those that contain large amounts of thiaminase (goldfish are of course notorious for that).
Jay
 

Gp!

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
631
Reaction score
434
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
They can get ick and other protozoan diseases and can not tolerate copper or cp.

Does cp mean copper power or chloroquine phosphate?

Is a tank transfer method the only way with these guys?
 
OP
OP
lion king

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,652
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Chloroquine phosphate. If you've noticed I'm kind of anti med, but I am also speaking in terms of the every day hobbyist. Cp dosing is very specific and most hobbyist can not adhere to what is necessary to be successful, so frankly I have never seen it be successful. The cp likely didn;t kill the angler, it probably just didn't work so the angler likely succumbed to the disease. I have never seen one survive using copper in any form. Professionals like @Jay Hemdal have a different perspective on meds, I just don't see with my own eyes, many hobbyists ever being successful. Over dosing, under dosing, mixing, etc. With cp it's about the source as quality is all over the place and so is the potency, There can be no porous material in the tank and light will degrade potency, starting to get my point.
 

aurora.k

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
369
Reaction score
433
Location
Paso Robles
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thanks for this write up - I am looking to get an angler for my Red Sea reefer 250. I assume a mantis shrimp is a no go? The reason I ask is they seem to hunt at different levels so i thought there might be a chance.

also, I will have live feeders in the tank - do you need to just add one at a time until they catch it or keep multiple? How do you manage overeating with live?
 
OP
OP
lion king

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,652
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thanks for this write up - I am looking to get an angler for my Red Sea reefer 250. I assume a mantis shrimp is a no go? The reason I ask is they seem to hunt at different levels so i thought there might be a chance.

also, I will have live feeders in the tank - do you need to just add one at a time until they catch it or keep multiple? How do you manage overeating with live?

The mantis is a definite no go. They actually would hunt in the same territory and it would be ugly; the mantis would destroy the angler.

You want to manage their feeding, so no free range, you establish a feeding routine based on size and their individual temperament. Overfeeding is a major killer to anglers. An itty bitty guy can be fed every other day and as they grow, start spreading it out. An adult should not be fed more than once a week to every 10 days. Even though they can eat fish equal in size, it's best to feed a few smaller items. You introduce the appropriate number of items based on their size and the angler;s size for a single feeding session, anglers are gorgers not grazers. It is very detrimental for them to eat daily or too frequently. Feed them until you see a nice bulge in their bellies. over time you can judge their growth and further determine your feeding schedule and amount. Its better to start out slow than to overfeed.

A small one will start on ghost shrimp and guppies, unless you are breeding your own mollies, it may be a while before they can handle mollies. Mollies will be the best food when they get large enough. Breeding mollies is easy and a fun project for some. Fish do need to be a big part of their diet, although initially ghosties may dominant. You may need to use the herding method by using a feeding stick(a rigid airline tube from the lfs works fine) to push the ghosties or fish towards the angler to catch them. Warties aren't known to be super aggressive hunters, and in your size tank may need some help.

Anglers are very sedentary and outside of hunting and eating can be very boring. Your tank is a nice tank that I am sure you will want additional tankmates. Be reminded, nothing that will pick on them and they can eat fish up to their size, not their mouth, their size.
 

DE FISH

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
1,070
Reaction score
2,325
Location
UK
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Fantastic write up and source of information thank you :)
 

aurora.k

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
369
Reaction score
433
Location
Paso Robles
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Anglers are very sedentary and outside of hunting and eating can be very boring.
Thank you so much for getting back to me, this was all really helpful. I have another tank (Red Sea 900), so I am ok on the fish being sedentary and just filling the space with non-problematic coral like softies and sponges and the one fish. I will be very careful if I decide to add anything else - but one thing I hadn’t thought about is the difficulty for the fish to hunt due to the size of the tank. Would getting a bigger species help this?
 
OP
OP
lion king

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,652
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thank you so much for getting back to me, this was all really helpful. I have another tank (Red Sea 900), so I am ok on the fish being sedentary and just filling the space with non-problematic coral like softies and sponges and the one fish. I will be very careful if I decide to add anything else - but one thing I hadn’t thought about is the difficulty for the fish to hunt due to the size of the tank. Would getting a bigger species help this?

The painted angler is my favorite, and a very aggressive hunter compared to other anglers. You may also consider the giant angler in your tank size. If you were to choose a painted or giant, they would definitely need to be the only fish, anything else would be instant food. I do enjoy this fish more in a species tank rather than a community tank, and they do better in a tank designed specifically for their care. They will do best on a dominant live fish diet eventually, and any species may need some assistance catching live fish. Youngsters feeding on ghost shrimp will easily catch their food on their own, but some herding is still appreciated to maintain the proper feeding schedule.
 

aurora.k

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
369
Reaction score
433
Location
Paso Robles
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
This really helpful and I am really appreciative of how generous you have already been with your time @lion king . I have a really dumb question, but a lot of frogfish are listed as "Antennarius sp." - which I think means that they are unspecified species in the family Antennarius, is that right? Or is that a specific species of frogfish? I was so sure it meant "assorted" but this site you linked suggests that "Antennarius sp." is actually Nudiantennarius subteres? I got very confused at this point....

Relatedly, any idea where I could get a painted angler?
 
Last edited:

ISpeakForTheSeas

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
6,223
Reaction score
7,526
Location
United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
This really helpful and I am really appreciative of how generous you have already been with your time @lion king . I have a really dumb question, but a lot of frogfish are listed as "Antennarius sp." - which I think means that they are unspecified species in the family Antennarius, is that right? Or is that a specific species of frogfish? Relatedly, any idea where I could get a painted angler?
Not trying to steal lion king's thunder here, but Antennarius is the genus, sp. indicates (as you've guessed) that it's an unspecified species in the genus (family is another step up taxonomically speaking).

I see the Painted's for sale occasionally on Live Aquaria's Diver's Den site, but not regularly. I'm not sure of any other sites that sell them that I'd honestly trust enough to have the ID right. Hopefully lion king will have a better answer for where to get them.
 
OP
OP
lion king

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,652
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
@ISpeakForTheSeas is correct, an Antennarius sp. will be a grab bag of sorts, you really won't know what you may get. You might get something nice and interesting, or you may get something blah. While you will see them on Divers Den, DD is not what they used to be. I always recommend trying to get your lfs to order one for you, give them the common name painted angler and the scientific name Antennarius pictus. Have your tank ready and live food source lined up, pick them in the bag and acclimation is crucial, match sg and do not expose to air, so yes you will have to mix the bag water in your tank, they need to be released under water.
 

Saltyanimals

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
1,001
Reaction score
455
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thank you for sharing the real care of these. No go for this reefer as I won't have the time or patience to care for one. You've saved a frogfish life. =)
 

aurora.k

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
369
Reaction score
433
Location
Paso Robles
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
There's a nice looking striated anglerfish I've seen, any luck with those @lion king ? And would that be ok in my Red Sea 250? So far, my LFS can only order " Antennarius sp" and I've expanded my inquiry to not-really-local fish store (NRLFS) and haven't had luck there either.

EDIT UPDATE:
Nevermind - I am going to stick with my original plan - the striated is really cool looking but what I really like is the lumpy/debris/sponge-with-a-face-and-mouth look of the painted, warty, etc.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
lion king

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,652
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
There's a nice looking striated anglerfish I've seen, any luck with those @lion king ? And would that be ok in my Red Sea 250? So far, my LFS can only order " Antennarius sp" and I've expanded my inquiry to not-really-local fish store (NRLFS) and haven't had luck there either.

EDIT UPDATE:
Nevermind - I am going to stick with my original plan - the striated is really cool looking but what I really like is the lumpy/debris/sponge-with-a-face-and-mouth look of the painted, warty, etc.

As far as care and survivability, they are right with the others. The males are especially interesting as they have a hairy appearance, not my cup of tea and does not rival the painted or warty. Have you considered a giant, Antennarius commersoni, they are similar to a painted but with a bit more heft, and will eat you out of house and home. Anglers don't grow to near their max size in captivity so don't worry about the 1'3" listed max size. Here's a cute one https://www.liveaquaria.com/divers-den/product/593063/giant-angler-red-orange&s=nlh&r=
 

shakacuz

hang loose, cuz
View Badges
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
Messages
8,798
Reaction score
33,770
Location
Eastern PA
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
frog fish/angler's are definitely on my list of species only choice! thank you for the write up.
 
OP
OP
lion king

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,652
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Why the painted is my favorite. They are interactive, they seem to be very curious as to what's going on outside the tank. The warty is cute, but not as interactive. I've had painted's that would follow me from one side of the tank to the other, and incessantly fish me with that fuzzy lure. Don't be sucked in, they act like they are always starving. Funny thing is they seem like they bond with their human caretakers, they would not follow or fish anyone else. I think my girlfriend was jealous. They are aggressive hunters, I've seen them fast walk, so funny, to corner and trap a fish or ghostie. One would climb up to a top vantage point and even angrily fish a fish that was out of reach, even circling their lure, desperate for attention. One would take a night time swim after the whites went out, taking off like a super hero and pumping the jet packs, using their feet to bounce off the glass. for some reason I was determined to get to eat dead food, one night he just marched down from a higher plateau grabbed the silverside from the feeding stick, and spit it at me, so belligerent. They really do have personality.

A reminder, remember to include some color to keep their color bright. They will imprint, and in fowlrs, I've seen them turn shades of greenish and grayish to blend with rock, substrate, and algae. An easy way in to include some red macro algae, gracilaria is a hardy one, there's dragon breathe and red grape. Here's a great online source if you can't get some from your lfs. https://www.live-plants.com/
 

Caring for your picky eaters: What do you feed your finicky fish?

  • Live foods

    Votes: 20 31.3%
  • Frozen meaty foods

    Votes: 52 81.3%
  • Soft pellets

    Votes: 10 15.6%
  • Masstick (or comparable)

    Votes: 7 10.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 4.7%
Back
Top