SOFTIES stunt growth of HARDIES!!! Really?

[Glenner’sreef]

I read this morning on R2R that “soft corals can stunt the growth of sps corals! What? I’ve been looking through posts this evening for that comment with no success. I wanted to contact the writer and get more info. Throughout today I’ve been chewing on the idea that soft coral toxins can stunt or slow down sps growth. Thought I’d sit down and see if I could find where I had read it. I have a beautiful and rather large Tyree Green Toadstool Leather in my tank. It’s completely separate from any other corals, sps lps or other softies. I’d really like to know the details of that discovery. I believe the post was written as a response to someones post. First time I’ve heard the word “stunt” re: sps coral growth. Appreciate your feedback.

 

[DonTavo27]

I’ve seen plenty of successful mixed reefs on this forum, so I doubt it.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

I’ve seen plenty of successful mixed reefs on this forum, so I doubt it.

Totally agree. I remember that the post I read was written by a member who had a good number of banners, so I took it serious. And I’m not saying he’s wrong. I just want details as to why he could be right.

 

[Rubberfrog]

Nonsense

 

[DonTavo27]

Totally agree. I remember that the post I read was written by a member who had a good number of banners, so I took it serious. And I’m not saying he’s wrong. I just want details as to why he could be right.

I could the see the potential for warfare though

 

[rhostam]

It is part of a typical listing for toadstools, among others. The terpenes are the specific toxins. The corals will release them to prevent encroachment of their surroundings. I place mine in accordance with general guidelines which say down steam from other (particularly SPS) corals. Use of carbon media helps to absorb these toxins and is probably why you don’t see more issues since it is a common media for water polish and other mitigating absorption purposes.

Ffwd 3:45~

 

[Glenner’sreef]

I could the see the potential for warfare though

But chemical warfare only happens when softies are touching other corals while fighting for their own space no?

 

[Glenner’sreef]

It is part of a typical listing for toadstools, among others. The terpenes are the specific toxins. The corals will release them to prevent encroachment of their surroundings. I place mine in accordance with general guidelines which say down steam from other (particularly SPS) corals. Use of carbon media helps to absorb these toxins and is probably why you don’t see more issues since it is a common media for water polish and other mitigating absorption purposes.

Ffwd 3:45~

So my Toadstool can release these toxins even when not being challenged?

 

[rhostam]

So my Toadstool can release these toxins even when not being challenged?

Apparently they are more passive aggressive. They don’t send out sweepers tentacles. They resort to poisoning around them to stunt growth of potential encroachers.

I can’t say if this is true. I’m not a marine biologist. But I heed the warnings.

Anecdotally, my SPS definitely has issues when they were down steam my toadstool. They were alive and looked to be [surviving], but they didn’t look happy as I expected them to be compared to other tank inhabitants. I redirected my flow nozzles and the SPS opened right up fully in a few days and started to grow a few weeks after that.

I planned on keeping my toadstool when I upgraded tanks. So I just placed him nearest to the overflow that I could and where tail end of flow would carry stuff out of the tank.

Yellow are powerheads
Red is flow pattern
Green is toadstool

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Apparently they are more passive aggressive. They don’t send out sweepers tentacles. They resort to poisoning around them to stunt growth of potential encroachers.

I can’t say if this is true. I’m not a marine biologist. But I heed the warnings.

Anecdotally, my SPS definitely has issues when they were down steam my toadstool. They were alive and looked to be [surviving], but they didn’t look happy as I expected them to be compared to other tank inhabitants. I redirected my flow nozzles and the SPS opened right up fully in a few days and started to grow a few weeks after that.

I planned on keeping my toadstool when I upgraded tanks. So I just placed him nearest to the overflow that I could and where tail end of flow would carry stuff out of the tank.

Yellow are powerheads
Red is flow pattern
Green is toadstool

So with the invisible nature of toxins. How does one know that the toxins are being sent out when a Toadstool, my Toadstool and apparently your Toadstool is nowhere near an encroaching coral? Does the data exist that by themselves these corals send out toxins just incase the enemy is near?

 

[TheDragonsReef]

Lots of big softies will absolutely cause issues with sps. You can still have soft corals in an sps dominant system, but keeping an acro in a softy dominant tank is harder than vise versa.

 

[rhostam]

So with the invisible nature of toxins. How does one know that the toxins are being sent out when a Toadstool, my Toadstool and apparently your Toadstool is nowhere near an encroaching coral? Does the data exist that by themselves these corals send out toxins just incase the enemy is near?

There are tons of articles describing this topic. There are also tons of anecdotal data supporting the subject here on reef2reef. I’m not sure what standard of data you require. But I’m sure there is a published paper out there that studied this subject.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Lots of big softies will absolutely cause issues with sps. You can still have soft corals in an sps dominant system, but keeping an acro in a softy dominant tank is harder than vise versa.

Agreed! But do you know of any data that says a single Toadstool coral sends out toxins at will? With the closest coral being 10” away? Thx for your input.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

There are tons of articles describing this topic. There are also tons of anecdotal data supporting the subject here on reef2reef. I’m not sure what standard of data you require. But I’m sure there is a published paper out there that studied this subject.

Fyi, thanks bud for your input and taking the time to discuss this.
So my “standard of data” is an article of testing and research on the specific subject of Toadstool Leather corals sending out toxins when not provoked.
my Toadstool is sitting high/middle of my tank away from other corals. Is it constantly sending out toxins thus stunting the growth of my sps?

 

[TheDragonsReef]

Im not aware of any articles i can share but when i started my reef tank it was originally softy dominant and i couldn't keep sps at all. I remember reading somewhere that softies could hurt sps and it all made sense from there. I decided i wanted to give sps a serious attempt, and i got rid of most of the soft corals. I slowly started adding some easy sps sure enough i didn't have any more issues

 

[Tamberav]

I am sure it's better to be without competitors. Remember everything competes for space on the reef. Stingers, toxins, whatever.

Mike C's softy tank was plumbed into his SPS tank. He did run carbon. Still if he can have that many leathers and SPS sharing the same water... it can't be THAT bad. In fact it was theorized that his softy tank was actually a big scrubber/refugium, cleaning the water for his SPS.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

I am sure it's better to be without competitors. Remember everything competes for space on the reef. Stingers, toxins, whatever.

Mike C's softy tank was plumbed into his SPS tank. He did run carbon. Still if he can have that many leathers and SPS sharing the same water... it can't be THAT bad. In fact it was theorized that his softy tank was actually a big scrubber/refugium, cleaning the water for his SPS.

Cool video thanks! I too run carbon: Chemi Pure Blue and change out everything 3 months. So what is Mike C. doing to minimize the toxins in these two spectacular reefs?

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Im not aware of any articles i can share but when i started my reef tank it was originally softy dominant and i couldn't keep sps at all. I remember reading somewhere that softies could hurt sps and it all made sense from there. I decided i wanted to give sps a serious attempt, and i got rid of most of the soft corals. I slowly started adding some easy sps sure enough i didn't have any more issues

The same happened to me a number of years ago. I just had too many soft corals. Many touching each other. And anytime I’d introduce an sps, digis or montes. Nothing too expensive at the time. But they just wouldn’t take off. Tissue would start to recede in days. After a big separation like yours things turned around. That’s why I see this as an life or death issue. I get hung up on this idea of “stunting it’s growth “ which I’ve never really heard before.

 

[DrZoidburg]

Something to look into also certain macro algae can do this.

 

[Tamberav]

Cool video thanks! I too run carbon: Chemi Pure Blue and change out everything 3 months. So what is Mike C. doing to minimize the toxins in these two spectacular reefs?

He uses carbon changed every two weeks in a reactor. He has a thread here somewhere.

I do keep several large leathers with SPS in my tank together without noticeable issues and I don’t use carbon.