SOFTIES stunt growth of HARDIES!!! Really?

[Glenner’sreef]

Something to look into also certain macro algae can do this.

Yes, I believe I’ve heard this. Good thing is no macro algae's in my tank. Just dried seaweed in a vegi clip. lol. Thx good info.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

He uses carbon changed every two weeks in a reactor. He has a thread here somewhere.

I do keep several large leathers with SPS in my tank together without noticeable issues and I don’t use carbon.

I’d like to read some of his posts. Is Mike C. his screen name?

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Here is the softy in question. It’s 11” across. If you’re just tuning in, the question is, does this large Toadstool put off toxins if no other coral is near it or agitating it. The comment was made that these toxins can stunt the growth of sps corals. That may be true, I’d just like to know if soft corals like mine just emit toxins at will. I’ve never heard that? What do you know about this?

 

[Tamberav]

I’d like to read some of his posts. Is Mike C. his screen name?

MikeC's SOFTY TANK

MikeC's SOFTY TANK I must say I couldn’t be happier with my decision to convert to softies. After having my sps dominant tank for 2 years and loosing it to flatworms :( needles to say I was pretty bummed out. I made up my mind to start over with a upgrade(because that was the excuse I had...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Glenner’sreef]

MikeC's SOFTY TANK

MikeC's SOFTY TANK I must say I couldn’t be happier with my decision to convert to softies. After having my sps dominant tank for 2 years and loosing it to flatworms :( needles to say I was pretty bummed out. I made up my mind to start over with a upgrade(because that was the excuse I had...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for getting that!!! Very nice.

 

[tehmadreefer]

I read this morning on R2R that “soft corals can stunt the growth of sps corals! What? I’ve been looking through posts this evening for that comment with no success. I wanted to contact the writer and get more info. Throughout today I’ve been chewing on the idea that soft coral toxins can stunt or slow down sps growth. Thought I’d sit down and see if I could find where I had read it. I have a beautiful and rather large Tyree Green Toadstool Leather in my tank. It’s completely separate from any other corals, sps lps or other softies. I’d really like to know the details of that discovery. I believe the post was written as a response to someones post. First time I’ve heard the word “stunt” re: sps coral growth. Appreciate your feedback.

Just because some random person posts something, it isn’t necessarily true… There are lots of “professional hobbyists” that think they are true biologists/scientists because they have an aquarium.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Just because some random person posts something, it isn’t necessarily true… There are lots of “professional hobbyists” that think they are true biologists/scientists because they have an aquarium.

So true, but it’s crazy when you hear something that’s just a little out there and you wonder if it’s true or not. A good reason this forum is so helpful, you can ask a crazy question and determine by the answers if it’s reasonable. Thx bud, appreciate it.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Thanks all who participated in this discussion. My personal conclusion is that there is no smoking gun. Yes, soft corals send out toxins to other corals which get too close. Yes it’s difficult and sometimes impossible to grow sps coral in a crowded soft coral tank.
But, No it’s not impossible to have a successful mixed reef as long as long as soft corals and hard corals stay in their own space.
And finally, No solid presented evidence that toxins from soft corals “stunt” the growth of sps corals. I’m still very much open to research and data on this subject. But until then thanks to all who joined in.

 

[chaoticreefer]

Softies can be kept with SPS, there's definitely proof out there. I have a mixed reef. The key is carbon. I certainly see a difference if I don't run carbon monthly.When I pop in carbon, everything becomes happy again. Even other softies start showing signs that they are ticked off at something within a month of not running carbon.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Soft corals will 100% release toxins into the water to prevent other corals from growing near them. On the reef, this gets diluted quickly. In your tank it builds up quickly. You can run carbon to remove the toxins.

 

[James_O]

I would say it depends on the softie. Mushrooms and zoas for example? Definitely not. But leathers and toadstools? Possibly.

 

[DrZoidburg]

I can say with some confidence that the only time I really noticed anything bad was sps/lps corals near a sinularia. Have kept with cespitularia, toadstools, the sinularia, ricordea, clove polyps, and gorgonians. The gorgonians might also have effects.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Softies can be kept with SPS, there's definitely proof out there. I have a mixed reef. The key is carbon. I certainly see a difference if I don't run carbon monthly.When I pop in carbon, everything becomes happy again. Even other softies start showing signs that they are ticked off at something within a month of not running carbon.

“The key is carbon” A seriously great answer for solving the problem. But, (work with me here) if you have a reef tank, fish, snails etc and just one soft coral. No other corals. Will it send out toxins to protect its space?

 

[Glenner’sreef]

I can say with some confidence that the only time I really noticed anything bad was sps/lps corals near a sinularia. Have kept with cespitularia, toadstools, the sinularia, ricordea, clove polyps, and gorgonians. The gorgonians might also have effects.

True! Sinularia was my biggest (literally) problem years ago. They were touching each other and other corals as well. When I went from that tank to a 137g custom, I separated everybody. It changed everything! Clams and Gonis would finally live in my tank. Crazy!

 

[Glenner’sreef]

I would say it depends on the softie. Mushrooms and zoas for example? Definitely not. But leathers and toadstools? Possibly.

Really good point! You know, just the very nature of zoanthids and mushrooms are to duplicate and reproduce in groups, side by side. It would surprise me if they don’t put out much in the way of toxins anyhow. But yes Leathers and Toadstools are branchy and singular in structure. And known to be somewhat aggressive.

 

[Rockytop_Reefer]

Soft corals do produce chemicals that could inhibit hard coral growth, but I don’t think I’ve ever read any real in depth information on it. So it might be a little bit over blown since there are plenty of successful mixed reefs. I think success comes down to the following mitigating factors: water changes, running carbon to remove toxins, and the individual corals propensity for producing toxins.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Soft corals do produce chemicals that could inhibit hard coral growth, but I don’t think I’ve ever read any real in depth information on it. So it might be a little bit over blown since there are plenty of successful mixed reefs. I think success comes down to the following mitigating factors: water changes, running carbon to remove toxins, and the individual corals propensity for producing toxins.

Yup, totally agree. I too haven’t yet seen information on a single soft coral emitting toxins for no reason at all. If (like in my tank) you have a large toadstool leather but there’s nothing within 6” of it in every direction, you should be good.

 

[mdb_talon]

Yup, totally agree. I too haven’t yet seen information on a single soft coral emitting toxins for no reason at all. If (like in my tank) you have a large toadstool leather but there’s nothing within 6” of it in every direction, you should be good.

There is a ton of scientific information on it. Sadly most is all protected behind paywalls and not something that can be shared. Sciencedirect.com is a great source for peer reviewed articles and has at least several on the subject, but again not something I can share. Most of the science behind it however is not at all focused on the home aquarium of course so the best we can do is extrapolate and use our less than scientific anecdotal "evidence" to argue either way.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

There is a ton of scientific information on it. Sadly most is all protected behind paywalls and not something that can be shared. Sciencedirect.com is a great source for peer reviewed articles and has at least several on the subject, but again not something I can share. Most of the science behind it however is not at all focused on the home aquarium of course so the best we can do is extrapolate and use our less than scientific anecdotal "evidence" to argue either way.

Right? It’s hard for me to believe that my lps or sps could be healthier than they are. Maybe they could be, but you certainly can’t tell by looking at them. And that evidence has to be worth something. Thanks for your input.

 

[Garf]

Yup, totally agree. I too haven’t yet seen information on a single soft coral emitting toxins for no reason at all. If (like in my tank) you have a large toadstool leather but there’s nothing within 6” of it in every direction, you should be good.

Toadstools and the like frequently shed a layer of slime which may be problematic, well mine used to get everywhere. Don’t know what compounds these layers include but it’s probably some sort of anti fouling stuff. Doubt if it would be beneficial to stonies.