Sold a tank, 2 weeks later the individual says it's leaking. Need advice.

Sidvicious

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It's not nonsense, it's common sense consumer protection law, and the lack of it in the US is exactly why the phrase 'buyer beware' isn't just some silly saying. This thread should serve as a big warning for anyone wanting to buy a large used tank in the US, regardless of how good of a guy the seller is or how many checks they did because if something goes wrong you're totally screwed.
Those with common sense know the risk of buying used as opposed to buying new, hence the dramatic savings when buying used as opposed to new. If you’d like a warranty, you have to be willing to pay a premium for that.
 

SMSREEF

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My 2 cents as buyer that just had this happen. Luckily without any fish...
I leak tested in my garage, again in the house with RODI and then added the salt.

I was so excited when I set it up and sent the seller pics. He was so happy with how it looked.

I am not even gonna tell him it started leaking. I assume it’s something I did when I moved it, or old seams that if he or I was better at noticing, this never would have happened. If I told him, he would only feel bad. Do I expect him to help me reseal? No.

Now, if I brought it home and leak tested and it leaked,that would have been a different story.

BTW, I’m never dealing with used tanks again. I’ll always buy new with a warranty.
Whether it was my bad moving, old seams, storage, etc... just not sure. But not sellers fault.
 

Thub

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While I maintain that the OP has no responsibility to the buyer, because buying used is cheaper because risk, there is an important part of the story here.
OP may well have unintentionally damaged the seals when he used silicone grease on them. Silicone is not rubber, which is important because rubber is not affected by silicone grease, which makes silicone grease a great option for use as a moisturizer.

Silicone sealant is obviously silicone, which is attacked/dissolved by the solvents in silicone grease. The grease can attack the sealant. See the applications section of the link https://www.oks-germany.com/en/products/oks-1110-multi-silicone-grease/

With that said, resealing the tank would be straightforward. A good thorough wash with soap and water will remove the silicone grease. Technically lots of nonpolar solvents will remove it, but soap and water does too, and it's easy to make sure all the soap is off too, which might not be the case for all petroleum solvents.
I have no idea what sanding and then polishing the sealing surface of the glass would do, but the OEM almost certainly didn't do that.
 

Bam327

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I am just getting back into the hobby, but have been making a lot of purchases over the past 12 months. The first thing i bought was a used 120 tank from a guy on craigslist for $250. I wanted a 120 and was kind of giddy to find one. After spending the past month building a stand and cleaning the tank up, I've really started to see how bad of shape the tank is in. The top rim is cracked in two places but filled with epoxy, the sides have been resealed with a really shoddy caulk job, and there are deep finger nail scratches on the front panel. I am so close to starting my cycle but it nearly made me sick when i finally just realized that I can't trust this thing to put water in, nor will i be happy looking through a scratched panel. As a buyer, it is my fault for not taking a closer look at the thing, and it is my fault i wasted $250. I'm not going back to the seller and trying to get my money back.
I have sold things in the past, and unless there is a warranty agreed upon at the hand shake of the deal, the sale is as-is. If no warranty was discussed, that's not your fault. It's the buyers responsibility to negotiate his best interests at the point of sale. It's just bad luck for him, but I would feel no responsibility as the seller. As others have stated, you have no idea what did or could have happened after the tank left your property.
 

MnFish1

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Not sure what that would have accomplished here. The buyer and seller already agree that the tank was leak detected, inspected, and not leaking when it was sold.

Sometimes stuff happens. It doesn't mean the buyer or the seller did anything wrong. It's a large, heavy, used tank. Moving it is going to cause it some stress which can lead to premature failure. That risk is why things like this are typically sold for a fraction of new price.

It was a general comment - wasn't directed 'directly' at the OP - except in the sense that he is now 'feeling guilty' wondering what to do. If there was a clear agreement that the tank was sold 'as is' - there would be no guilt, question, or issue. Note - in my post I also mentioned 'any expensive piece of equipment'.

By the way - Lets say this happened a bit differently - i.e. he sells the guy a tank - the guy fills it with water - and he has a large leak - damaging carpeting, walls, etc - Its not just the value of the tank - and If you dont think there are people out there that would start a small claims suit because of something like this - IMHO - there are. When a single piece of paper stating 'Sold as is, 200 gallon aquarium, no warranty' signed.... xxx yyy - it would completely remove any issue. Its not like I was suggesting that a Supreme Court judge had to be hired to draft a document:). But - I understand what you're saying.
 

MnFish1

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It's not nonsense, it's common sense consumer protection law, and the lack of it in the US is exactly why the phrase 'buyer beware' isn't just some silly latin saying. This thread should serve as a big warning for anyone wanting to buy a large used tank in the US, regardless of how good of a guy the seller is or how many checks they did because if something goes wrong you're totally screwed. The peace of mind of a warranty and insurance is worth way more than saving a few quick bucks on a 'good deal' for something used.

This may seem to be off topic - but I think its best to correct possible errors - This is an excerpt of the definition of 'faulty' according the European law -and a product has to be 'faulty' to be covered under this law. The law seems designed to be getting at fraudulent sales not something like we are discussing. https://europa.eu/youreurope/busine...s-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm

Cases when you are not liable
You bear no liability if you can prove that:

  • you did not place the product on the market
  • you did not manufacture the product for sale
  • the defect causing the damage did not exist when the product was placed on the market
  • the defect arose only because your product had to fulfil mandatory technical requirements
  • according to the latest scientific and technical standards, no one could have foreseen the defect when you placed the product on the market
  • you manufactured only one component, and the defect was the result of the design of the final product.
 

Dr. Dendrostein

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Tank was water tested and filled for 3 days before it was sold with no issues. Water was filled up to the drain line and left there. Buyer inspected the tank and was given screen shots of it filling up, and it was filled when they came to pick up the tank.

For reference this was an Elos 120xl that was ~3 years old. Tank had been dry for about 1.5 years and I applied silicone grease to the seams after it was dried. No issues ever happened with this tank prior to sale.

How would you want this handled if it was you? How would you handle this if you were the seller. I'm conflicted because I know I sold the tank in good working order, and I don't have any control over what happened after it left my house.
All my tanks are bought used, never a leak. One time I filled a tank and try moving it,while full, that one did leak. Used tanks, can't expect warranty, like new ones. Common sense
 

VillainzReefExotics702

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How would u know it would start leaking in two weeks maybe they bumped it during the move u don’t know i would probably try to do something to help them out but idk man that sucks
 

daftwazzock

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This may seem to be off topic - but I think its best to correct possible errors - This is an excerpt of the definition of 'faulty' according the European law -and a product has to be 'faulty' to be covered under this law. The law seems designed to be getting at fraudulent sales not something like we are discussing. https://europa.eu/youreurope/busine...s-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm

Cases when you are not liable
You bear no liability if you can prove that:

  • you did not place the product on the market
  • you did not manufacture the product for sale
  • the defect causing the damage did not exist when the product was placed on the market
  • the defect arose only because your product had to fulfil mandatory technical requirements
  • according to the latest scientific and technical standards, no one could have foreseen the defect when you placed the product on the market
  • you manufactured only one component, and the defect was the result of the design of the final product.

Thanks for clarifying! Maybe I will sell my tank when i outgrow it after all then...
 

ScottW

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If I was the buyer, and I wanted 2 + weeks to fill it up, I would not have let you know at all. You kept the seals properly with grease, 99% would not do that, so kudos to you.

I would let them know, it has been over 2 weeks, he saw it in person without any leaks, you feel bad this has happened, but there is NO way you know what he/she may have done to cause this.

I would let them know, sorry but there is nothing you can do.
 

mattzang

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i'm looking at buying a used tank now and honestly OP went above and beyond IMO. most used tanks the seller isn't even going to do a leak test on. that right there should've been enough. usually there's a past picture of the tank when it had water and it's like.. alright, but that doesn't tell me much.

where it may have gotten sketchy is if you didn't show him the tank full of water, he buys it and gets it home, then it leaks. maybe in that situation i'd feel bad as the seller, but you still aren't liable or something. like others have said, that's the risk. i helped my mom sell an old washer awhile back. it worked, we knew it worked because we plugged it in and ran it before selling it. a guy she sort of knows through work bought it, loaded it himself like an idiot (apparently quite rough), gets it home and it doesn't work. it wasn't worth $100 to my mom to have a bad dealing with a professional contact so she just gave him the money back.

i'm sort of on the other end of a similar situation right now. i bought a randalls assessor from a guy that claims to QT fish. i bought it, it died a week later. i did reach out to him, more to tell him hey i might have an issue here lets hold off on other fish for a bit to see if a problem arises or this was a one off thing (he was going to order me several more fish that he'd QT) and he offered to replace the assessor. which was really nice of him, but i'm not sure i'll take him up on it. a week out feels like it's more my problem to me and we never discussed a guarantee or anything of that sort. but still, he obviously wants to right the wrong because he wants to sell me more QT'd fish, and i'm obviously feeling a little apprehensive that i bought a supposedly healthy fish only for it to die.

like OP, i feel it's generally a good idea to maintain good relations with local reefers. burning bridges isn't a smart way to go about things. i think that's all he's getting at when he says he'd be willing to chip in to help out the buyer. i've had people text me a week after buying frags from them and i've said oh that acro frag RTN'd and died and they've been quick to offer a replacement for free. that's super cool and i haven't taken them up on it because i feel that's totally on me/my tank, but it's a nice offer.
 

Magellan

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OP, you went so far above and beyond in this sale. I hope everyone I buy from in the future is as courteous as you!

as MANY others have stated, as soon as the buyer left with the USED tank, it was his. He bought it, as is, and it immediately became his responsibility once $$ changed hands.

having his buddies come on here and get passive aggressive is just sad. Accept some responsibility and move on.
 

this is me

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Would be interesting to see where this Elos 120XL is leaking.
Larger rimless tanks with thin glass are very hard to move without seam consequences.
 

holdthecoffee

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I just stumbled upon this old thread. I'm sorry for both parties involved. I'm hoping both buyer and seller eventually came to some conclusion that keeps them both happy. I've been out of this hobby for over ten years (went back to school) and just started getting back into it. I joined this hobby in the past because of the great reefing community and all the help everyone provided. I hope things have not changed.
 
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holdthecoffee

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While I maintain that the OP has no responsibility to the buyer, because buying used is cheaper because risk, there is an important part of the story here.
OP may well have unintentionally damaged the seals when he used silicone grease on them. Silicone is not rubber, which is important because rubber is not affected by silicone grease, which makes silicone grease a great option for use as a moisturizer.

Silicone sealant is obviously silicone, which is attacked/dissolved by the solvents in silicone grease. The grease can attack the sealant. See the applications section of the link https://www.oks-germany.com/en/products/oks-1110-multi-silicone-grease/

With that said, resealing the tank would be straightforward. A good thorough wash with soap and water will remove the silicone grease. Technically lots of nonpolar solvents will remove it, but soap and water does too, and it's easy to make sure all the soap is off too, which might not be the case for all petroleum solvents.
I have no idea what sanding and then polishing the sealing surface of the glass would do, but the OEM almost certainly didn't do that.

Interesting to learn this!

I work in a hospital, and sometimes we close surgical incisions with a compound called dermabond (basically superglue for wound closure). Dermabond is super strong, water resistant and impossible to get off with water. You basically have to wait for your skin to slough off before it comes off. If we ever have to remove it in a pinch to reexplore the surgical site, we apply Vaseline and it comes right off. Basically we just need a hydrophobic compound to remove the hydrophobic sealant.

It makes sense to me why applying a silicone grease to silicone sealant could be a bad idea.
 
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amoore311

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Interesting to learn this!

I work in a hospital, and sometimes we close surgical incisions with a compound called dermabond (basically superglue for wound closure). Dermabond is super strong, water resistant and impossible to get off with water. You basically have to wait for your skin to slough off before it comes off. If we ever have to remove it in a pinch to reexplore the surgical site, we apply Vaseline and it comes right off. Basically we just need a hydrophobic compound to remove the hydrophobic sealant.

It makes sense to me why applying a silicone grease to silicone sealant could be a bad idea.

dermabond is the exact same as standard superglue. The only difference is in the medical grade version it’s formulated so it will not burn when applied to open wounds. Standard superglue tends to sting a little when first applied.

All other properties are identical to superglue.
 

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