jabberwock
2500 Club Member
withdrawn
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Someone with an invaded, nutrient imbalanced reef post up for a full rework+ skip cycle reassembly
- Thread starter brandon429
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OP
OP
There are many ways to control algae for sure, we wanted to collect only the tank cleaning kind here, that way we can track examples and watch for patterns.
If the time comes that you decide after seeing the other examples that you do want to fix the tank, then that conversion choice will make for the best example we have on the thread- much better than any tank after pics. I’ll wait months if it takes that long by choice, we want you fully planted with coral as the end goal.
If the time comes that you decide after seeing the other examples that you do want to fix the tank, then that conversion choice will make for the best example we have on the thread- much better than any tank after pics. I’ll wait months if it takes that long by choice, we want you fully planted with coral as the end goal.
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jabberwock
2500 Club Member
I thank you for the after pics and before pics. If you are determined to post it even after my edits onto post #1, very top, then I accept fully.we get to compare time scales between the two systems then.
There are many ways to control algae for sure, we wanted to collect only the tank cleaning kind here, that way we can track examples and watch for patterns.
If the time comes that you decide after seeing the other examples that you do want to fix the tank, then that conversion psychology will make for the best example we have on the thread- much better than any tank after pics. I’ll wait months if it takes that long by choice, we want you fully planted with coral as the end goal.
You know what Brandon, I never even read that very first post to the thread. I apologize for my intrusion.
Sipec
Well-Known Member
I was thinking of getting a chonch, thanks for the reminder. Also the daily water changes sound like an interesting idea, maybe I'll try that
jabberwock
2500 Club Member
As I reply to myself, in point of fact, I did not intrude, you invited me to this thread on August 27th of 2018 by way of replying to a thread that I began.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/when-does-algae-become-a-problem.417217/page-2
OP
OP
Not a problem. I had only wanted to get a certain type of data plot going and today we had two posted not cleaning... I didn't mind if they stayed but wanted to redirect to cleaned examples in the future if possible.
To me it's like an LPS vs SPS thread, no judgement at all just aiming for certain types of tanks for the work examples.
Once we get several solid pages of after pics from manually-cleaned tanks the thread will have a strong momentum. Was referring you here to show a very opposite way to fix your tank vs the method I saw in your thread.
The title of the thread describes the whole action, wasn't trying to trick people/
To me it's like an LPS vs SPS thread, no judgement at all just aiming for certain types of tanks for the work examples.
Once we get several solid pages of after pics from manually-cleaned tanks the thread will have a strong momentum. Was referring you here to show a very opposite way to fix your tank vs the method I saw in your thread.
The title of the thread describes the whole action, wasn't trying to trick people/
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jabberwock
2500 Club Member
I find it absurd that you would invite me to the thread and then expect to dictate how I responded. Good Day...
OP
OP
I had to take my car to the shop last year because it was shaking and I couldn't figure out why at home... but at the shop I handed over the keys
Didn't mean to offend I thought you were posting for us to run our unique method.
~ My concern is that if our invasion examples don't provide algae free pics soon after posting invaded ones, then people who skim read wouldn't see a representation of how we clean tanks here. I don't judge GFO or ATS approaches at all, but to mix them up makes patterns hard to define. We want the readers to see that undoing an algae invasion is only a matter of will and applying a certain order of steps; delay in posting full cure after pics soon after makes the approach appear compromised. Nutrient controls / clean up crews take months to work, if ever.
We like to use and recommend clean up crews go into the clean condition tank, not during the invasion. CUC members add to detritus, they don't reduce it. All my offers come to you in order of deconstruction from that huge sand rinse thread above.
Planning on being accountable for recommended action in aquariums live in this thread... was going to see tanks through.
We had a gentleman take a power tool to a set of rocks earlier and it made me smile...there's clear direction in this madness~ we're just working in the rare space that doesn't have to be taken slow.
Normal reefing rules don't apply here, we're the cleanup.
Didn't mean to offend I thought you were posting for us to run our unique method.
~ My concern is that if our invasion examples don't provide algae free pics soon after posting invaded ones, then people who skim read wouldn't see a representation of how we clean tanks here. I don't judge GFO or ATS approaches at all, but to mix them up makes patterns hard to define. We want the readers to see that undoing an algae invasion is only a matter of will and applying a certain order of steps; delay in posting full cure after pics soon after makes the approach appear compromised. Nutrient controls / clean up crews take months to work, if ever.
We like to use and recommend clean up crews go into the clean condition tank, not during the invasion. CUC members add to detritus, they don't reduce it. All my offers come to you in order of deconstruction from that huge sand rinse thread above.
Planning on being accountable for recommended action in aquariums live in this thread... was going to see tanks through.
We had a gentleman take a power tool to a set of rocks earlier and it made me smile...there's clear direction in this madness~ we're just working in the rare space that doesn't have to be taken slow.
Normal reefing rules don't apply here, we're the cleanup.
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jabberwock
2500 Club Member
Why do you call it invasion? It is a natural part of a marine system. Just because you don't like it does not mean it is an invasion.
Most people have a warped sense of "order and chaos". Let's take yard work for example. Where I live, there are a lot of deciduous trees. When the autumnal cycle begins, they drop their leaves. My neighborhood is a constant whir of activity and machinery for several months, all bent on the task of gathering these fallen leaves in order to dispose of them through various methods including incineration. When spring rolls around, the leaf gathering activity is replaced by a maniacal need to irrigate and fertilize lawns so that they can grow bright green and tall so that they can then...be mowed...
People have removed the "natural" blanket of leaves that insulates, fertilizes, and hydrates the vegetation that they temporarily cover. This creates a "need" that is further propagated by a multi billion dollar industry that springs up around a problem that never existed until we interfered. I propose that those leaves were exactly where God intended them to be when they fell from the trees. We create more issues than ever really existed in the first place.
So, algae is supposed to be in my tank. Perhaps it needs some gardening, but I wholly disagree with the nuclear method of removal that you are proselytizing in this thread. I firmly believe in a condition of balance that will be achieved with patience, over time.
The human tendency to self validate by imposing a sense of mastery and command over a situation is deeply evident in your "approach" to "taking back" a tank.
Not my style...
Most people have a warped sense of "order and chaos". Let's take yard work for example. Where I live, there are a lot of deciduous trees. When the autumnal cycle begins, they drop their leaves. My neighborhood is a constant whir of activity and machinery for several months, all bent on the task of gathering these fallen leaves in order to dispose of them through various methods including incineration. When spring rolls around, the leaf gathering activity is replaced by a maniacal need to irrigate and fertilize lawns so that they can grow bright green and tall so that they can then...be mowed...
People have removed the "natural" blanket of leaves that insulates, fertilizes, and hydrates the vegetation that they temporarily cover. This creates a "need" that is further propagated by a multi billion dollar industry that springs up around a problem that never existed until we interfered. I propose that those leaves were exactly where God intended them to be when they fell from the trees. We create more issues than ever really existed in the first place.
So, algae is supposed to be in my tank. Perhaps it needs some gardening, but I wholly disagree with the nuclear method of removal that you are proselytizing in this thread. I firmly believe in a condition of balance that will be achieved with patience, over time.
The human tendency to self validate by imposing a sense of mastery and command over a situation is deeply evident in your "approach" to "taking back" a tank.
Not my style...
OP
OP
That's an understandable take for a non work thread, here all we're doing is repeating works from large work threads already linked.
People are presenting a condition they want reversed, invasion is a catch all term- for any organism dictating how the tank will run vs being gone if we prefer it gone.
Really this is just a works thread. I'm either going to have living or dying tanks posted as outcomes, since we don't work with mid ground partial actions.
Gotta wait till I get more than four willing parties to generate works to form a critique... even if we disregard the other pages of it being done.
Am inviting scientific feedback on this thread, but make it example specific- can't be theoretical. Before and after pics need to guide this thread so we don't descend into a procedural debate.
This isn't a nuclear option at all it's literally the bare minimum effort required to make every reef tank you'll ever own behave from day 1 to day 3000. All the other reefing options are win some/lose some backseating.
People are presenting a condition they want reversed, invasion is a catch all term- for any organism dictating how the tank will run vs being gone if we prefer it gone.
Really this is just a works thread. I'm either going to have living or dying tanks posted as outcomes, since we don't work with mid ground partial actions.
Gotta wait till I get more than four willing parties to generate works to form a critique... even if we disregard the other pages of it being done.
Am inviting scientific feedback on this thread, but make it example specific- can't be theoretical. Before and after pics need to guide this thread so we don't descend into a procedural debate.
This isn't a nuclear option at all it's literally the bare minimum effort required to make every reef tank you'll ever own behave from day 1 to day 3000. All the other reefing options are win some/lose some backseating.
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jabberwock
2500 Club Member
Yet you disregard the results of my outcome because it does not support your opinion. Hardly scientific...
I would know. I am a scientist.
OP
OP
We're debating two different things, I'm into connecting only results. generate some work threads to test your way. I'm aware of the critiques of manual cleaning, but they don't stop our threads getting out to eighteen pages addressing help needs from people following methods that store up waste.
You know that if you don't have work threads, you bring the wrong currency to this thread its not about being natural. It's about making systems produce coral mass, produce coralline, resist invasion, and run in a fully predictable manner just by deep cleaning them.
That doesn't take away from your years in the hobby it just means we want to collect recent, currently-running tank examples by pics and links here.
You know that if you don't have work threads, you bring the wrong currency to this thread its not about being natural. It's about making systems produce coral mass, produce coralline, resist invasion, and run in a fully predictable manner just by deep cleaning them.
That doesn't take away from your years in the hobby it just means we want to collect recent, currently-running tank examples by pics and links here.
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OP
OP
I'm saying I value your science background. However you've applied it to aquarium work or restoration I'm open to read.
We will change, cease, adapt or embolden any procedure here based on live time examples from works, nothing is fixed.
My goal is true tank restoration science, results, after pics, consistent non tank loss. Just because you and I develop that in different ways doesn't make us at odds.
Anything I recommend here isn't to the exclusion of another technique, present any blended situation and we'll tease a safe procedure to change course if requested, no harm no foul, based on the sand rinse thread and the peroxide thread (which ironically uses little peroxide and we never dump it into tanks)
We will change, cease, adapt or embolden any procedure here based on live time examples from works, nothing is fixed.
My goal is true tank restoration science, results, after pics, consistent non tank loss. Just because you and I develop that in different ways doesn't make us at odds.
Anything I recommend here isn't to the exclusion of another technique, present any blended situation and we'll tease a safe procedure to change course if requested, no harm no foul, based on the sand rinse thread and the peroxide thread (which ironically uses little peroxide and we never dump it into tanks)
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jabberwock
2500 Club Member
You categorically censored my work thread/posts...
jabberwock
2500 Club Member
You don't need me, or science. You have already made your conclusions.
OP
OP
Reefers are reporting for pages in the sand rinse thread that they love the method, am passing it on here, no harm no foul.
your critique is pretty specific I'm fair in asking to see your aquarium works past your own.
No censor!! Even if I could edit someone's post I never would.
I'm not trying to battle. I'm only hoping to invite really challenged tanks and let me work with them based on priors.
In case I did miss something in your posts I'm going back and reading now.
your critique is pretty specific I'm fair in asking to see your aquarium works past your own.
No censor!! Even if I could edit someone's post I never would.
I'm not trying to battle. I'm only hoping to invite really challenged tanks and let me work with them based on priors.
In case I did miss something in your posts I'm going back and reading now.
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OP
OP
I just reread it all, am clear that you use a very different algae control means.
am ok with your technique, it's natural based agreed.
There's no way to argue or battle in a works thread, they're unique in that way, it's just an assemblage of tank jobs.
Trying to get back on track from here on out
This is free tank restoration help, it's a positive action type thread using certain means... a test of a very specific type of aquarium care. I'm open to feedback on future pages, hopefully we'll have lots of tanks to look back on.
am ok with your technique, it's natural based agreed.
There's no way to argue or battle in a works thread, they're unique in that way, it's just an assemblage of tank jobs.
Trying to get back on track from here on out
This is free tank restoration help, it's a positive action type thread using certain means... a test of a very specific type of aquarium care. I'm open to feedback on future pages, hopefully we'll have lots of tanks to look back on.
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jabberwock
2500 Club Member
Brandon, I have been keeping aquariums for nearly 40 years. I do not understand where you are coming from at all. I do not wish to continue this engagement. Please accept my best wishes and my resignation from this discussion.
Fare thee well.
Fare thee well.
Wanted to provide another update. Over the weekend I had some spare time so I did another round of peroxide on the red turf algae. I went significantly more nuclear this time -- I pulled these top 3 rocks out of the tank, liberally doused them in peroxide, then threw them in a 5g bucket. About 15 minutes later I doused them again, then 30 minutes later I washed them off and put them back in the tank.
Within 24 hours the algae was turning white and over the past few days I'v seen more of my snails picking at it. The stuff that didn't turn white within the first 24 hours turned white within the following 1-2 days - much quicker than my initial round of this.
For tracking, I'll also add:
- Lighting: I had been running my lights for 10 hours a day. Stock RSM-250 T5s which are 6 x 39w lights a few inches off the water. At the start of this, I dropped my lighting to a mere 5 hours a day.. I'm in the process of retrofitting nanobox reef LEDs into my hood which I'll likely finish this week. That will let me get back to longer hours so I can enjoy the tank - but have the lighting running at lower intensity whereas today it is on/off and nothing in between.
I strongly believe the excess strong lightning contributed significantly to the issues -- a lot of the rock was from a 4 year old prior tank that never had red turf problems. I'm sure the turf existed, but it didn't thrive and overwhelm the tank until the upgrade.
- Clean up crew: This past weekend in addition to the peroxide bomb, I also bought 5 more turbo snails. I already have 2 very large ones - I read some anecdotal reports that people had success with a bunch of smaller turbos so I figured I had nothing to lose in buying more.
My overall goal/hope is that I can combat this through a few angles.
1) Pulling out accessible rocks and peroxide nuking the algae off
2) Limiting light to hopefully slow the overall algae growth
3) By peroxide nuking algae and slowing the growth, allow my clean up crew to start to get ahead of the algae and long term consume algae faster than it grows and get the tank into equilibrium.
I do think that turbos eat the algae -- I see them on it daily. I just think that when faced with a well stocked buffet, they nibble here and there and never really *remove* anything. As such, they are eating it in a sustainable way where it grows back as fast/faster than it is consumed.
Within 24 hours the algae was turning white and over the past few days I'v seen more of my snails picking at it. The stuff that didn't turn white within the first 24 hours turned white within the following 1-2 days - much quicker than my initial round of this.
For tracking, I'll also add:
- Lighting: I had been running my lights for 10 hours a day. Stock RSM-250 T5s which are 6 x 39w lights a few inches off the water. At the start of this, I dropped my lighting to a mere 5 hours a day.. I'm in the process of retrofitting nanobox reef LEDs into my hood which I'll likely finish this week. That will let me get back to longer hours so I can enjoy the tank - but have the lighting running at lower intensity whereas today it is on/off and nothing in between.
I strongly believe the excess strong lightning contributed significantly to the issues -- a lot of the rock was from a 4 year old prior tank that never had red turf problems. I'm sure the turf existed, but it didn't thrive and overwhelm the tank until the upgrade.
- Clean up crew: This past weekend in addition to the peroxide bomb, I also bought 5 more turbo snails. I already have 2 very large ones - I read some anecdotal reports that people had success with a bunch of smaller turbos so I figured I had nothing to lose in buying more.
My overall goal/hope is that I can combat this through a few angles.
1) Pulling out accessible rocks and peroxide nuking the algae off
2) Limiting light to hopefully slow the overall algae growth
3) By peroxide nuking algae and slowing the growth, allow my clean up crew to start to get ahead of the algae and long term consume algae faster than it grows and get the tank into equilibrium.
I do think that turbos eat the algae -- I see them on it daily. I just think that when faced with a well stocked buffet, they nibble here and there and never really *remove* anything. As such, they are eating it in a sustainable way where it grows back as fast/faster than it is consumed.
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