Something I'm missing?

[Moose.Jy]

Hello, I could use some experienced opinions on why my fish keep dying/disappearing.

My tank is 4m/o. 20 Gallon aio
Weekly 15% water change with IO
(Very young yes sry)
I have a healthy population of snails, (20 ceirth, 3 nerite, 3 astraea, 3 nassarius)
and an even better population of copepods (seem them on glass all the time)
No corals yet.

But for some reason all of the fish that go in the tank die. There had been 4 now.
A cleaner goby, elongated dottyback, clown goby, tail spot blenny.

All lived their first week in QT, and then at least 2 weeks after being put in main display the longest living 2 months (cleaner goby) all were drip acclimated as well into and out of QT.

None showed signs of disease or sickness from what I can tell, one was rather listless from day one (tail spot) but he did live an entire month.

My parameters are stable and have been since bottle bacteria cycle finished.
-i seem to have gotten a bucket of IO that is below normal on calcium- switch next week already ordered new.
Temp -77
Salinity -1.026
pH -7.55
Nh3 -0.15
NO2 -0
NO3 -30
PO4 -0.24
Alk -7.3
Cal -250
Mag -1350

I feed 2 sinkings pellets, mostly for snails, and when fish were alive frozen mysis shrimp every other day. Also have all those copods for anything willing to hunt them, and 1/2 oz phytoplankton twice a week for the pods.

Am I missing something? What am I doing to these poor fish? Did I starve them?
I never seem to find their little bodies but I assume that's cause of the snails. For the most part they each have been fine happy and swimming then just missing/dead.

Any advice would be appreciated, at this point I don't even want to get another fish, I'm worried I'm gonna off the poor thing.

 

[Rmckoy]

Something is off . Whether it’s testing error or something else .
how do you have only 250 ppm cal if your salinity is 1.026
What test kits are you using , how long ago was your refractometer or hydrometer for measuring salinity calibrated ?

can you describe the drip acclimation process ?
How was the tank cycled ? Do you have live rocks ?

pictures can sometimes help

let’s tag the pro while we’re at it

@vetteguy53081
@brandon429 is this tank cycled ?

 

[ebushrow]

Your nitrates are high and your calcium is low but that shouldn’t effect the fish at all….everything has been eating well and looked fine?

 

[TokenReefer]

How much mysis did you feed every other day? Did they develop little bellies/gain any mass?

 

[Moose.Jy]

Something is off . Whether it’s testing error or something else .
how do you have only 250 ppm cal if your salinity is 1.026
What test kits are you using , how long ago was your refractometer or hydrometer for measuring salinity calibrated ?

can you describe the drip acclimation process ?
How was the tank cycled ? Do you have live rocks ?

pictures can sometimes help

let’s tag the pro while we’re at it

@vetteguy53081
@brandon429 is this tank cycled ?

My test kits are
Ammonia/nitites- salfiert
pH electronic reader w/ calibration regents from Amazon
Nitrate - REEFER
Phosphate/ alkalinity - Hanna
Calcium - red sea calcium pro
Mag- Aqua forest
Salinity is a generic refraction meter but I calibrate it with Rodi every time I use it.
And yes my salt mix test at 250 calcium right at mixing. I very much think I got an off bucket or something. I have a new one on the way.

Everyone except the blenny ate when I fed the tank. But if I put some half pellets near his hiding spot they would disappear within the hour so not sure if he actually ate it.

I have simple IV line drip acclimation, usually start with two/ three cups of water in my "bucket" (it's a mixing bowl) and with a steady slow drip over usually 1.5hours the water will about tripple and I'll transfer the fish and usually top off the tank.

Started with dry rock and sand, cycled with Tim's one and only using the chart and ammonia drops took about two and a half weeks to stabilize. Did not add fish for about three weeks after that -because I live about 2 hours from nearest fish store- but I did online order my snails and copods in those three weeks.
I also added Aquaforest reef mud, just once during those three weeks as well.

 

[Moose.Jy]

How much mysis did you feed every other day? Did they develop little bellies/gain any mass?

Only had two fish in tank at a time, so I was feeding about 1/4th of a frozen block thawed out. I'm not sure how big the blocks are but they look like the standard size.
Everyone looked to stay about the same size.

 

[Shibaken3]

no need to drop the pellet and dose phyto. they are scavengers. i Recommend just putting in frozen food every day. Ph needs to be 8

 

[ScubaFish802]

Any pics of the tank? Do the fish hangout near the surface frequently?

 

[Fishy212]

When in doubt, check for faulty equipment. I would recheck everything. Could be something like foreign metal(s) , some kind of rust creeping in or maybe a stray voltage from your heater, powerhead or pump.

I know how you must feel.. Do not let the others die in vain. You will make it through this!!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello, I could use some experienced opinions on why my fish keep dying/disappearing.

My tank is 4m/o. 20 Gallon aio
Weekly 15% water change with IO
(Very young yes sry)
I have a healthy population of snails, (20 ceirth, 3 nerite, 3 astraea, 3 nassarius)
and an even better population of copepods (seem them on glass all the time)
No corals yet.

But for some reason all of the fish that go in the tank die. There had been 4 now.
A cleaner goby, elongated dottyback, clown goby, tail spot blenny.

All lived their first week in QT, and then at least 2 weeks after being put in main display the longest living 2 months (cleaner goby) all were drip acclimated as well into and out of QT.

None showed signs of disease or sickness from what I can tell, one was rather listless from day one (tail spot) but he did live an entire month.

My parameters are stable and have been since bottle bacteria cycle finished.
-i seem to have gotten a bucket of IO that is below normal on calcium- switch next week already ordered new.
Temp -77
Salinity -1.026
pH -7.55
Nh3 -0.15
NO2 -0
NO3 -30
PO4 -0.24
Alk -7.3
Cal -250
Mag -1350

I feed 2 sinkings pellets, mostly for snails, and when fish were alive frozen mysis shrimp every other day. Also have all those copods for anything willing to hunt them, and 1/2 oz phytoplankton twice a week for the pods.

Am I missing something? What am I doing to these poor fish? Did I starve them?
I never seem to find their little bodies but I assume that's cause of the snails. For the most part they each have been fine happy and swimming then just missing/dead.

Any advice would be appreciated, at this point I don't even want to get another fish, I'm worried I'm gonna off the poor thing.

To start with, what test kits are you using as I suspect false readings
I suggest taking a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API test kits and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours.

When acclimating fish from quarantine tank, are you matching salinity with that of the display tank?

phosphate level is high (should be.04 - .06) -are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet?
Don’t worry about nitrite level

ph acidic and drop salinity to 1.025.

 

[Moose.Jy]

Any pics of the tank? Do the fish hangout near the surface frequently?

None on the surface but I had two that were always swimming into the rear chamber to hang out.

 

[Moose.Jy]

To start with, what test kits are you using as I suspect false readings
I suggest taking a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API test kits and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours.

When acclimating fish from quarantine tank, are you matching salinity with that of the display tank?

phosphate level is high (should be.04 - .06) -are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet?
Don’t worry about nitrite level

ph acidic and drop salinity to 1.025.

My test kits are
Ammonia/nitites- salfiert
pH electronic reader w/ calibration regents from Amazon
Nitrate - REEFER
Phosphate/ alkalinity - Hanna
Calcium - red sea calcium pro
Mag- Aqua forest
Salinity is a generic refraction meter but I calibrate it with Rodi every time I use it.
And yes my salt mix test at 250 calcium right at mixing. I very much think I got an off bucket or something. I have a new one on the way.

And I have a ro/di system and it test at 0ppm before mixing salt.

I'm afraid I live a bit far from may fish store. But I can try in a few weeks to get back out to the city.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

In cases where the invertebrates are fine but the fish are dying you can rule out water quality issues virtually 100% of the time. In this case you don’t have delicate invertebrates, but even the snails will be more sensitive to water issues than fish are.
Did you treat the fish when they were in quarantine? I’d advise using the one posted at the top of the disease forum here.
Jay

 

[Moose.Jy]

When in doubt, check for faulty equipment. I would recheck everything. Could be something like foreign metal(s) , some kind of rust creeping in or maybe a stray voltage from your heater, powerhead or pump.

I know how you must feel.. Do not let the others die in vain. You will make it through this!!

Had not thought of that. Only heater and stock pump in the water but I will pull both and check them, wanted a quieter pump anyway. XD

 

[Moose.Jy]

In cases where the invertebrates are fine but the fish are dying you can rule out water quality issues virtually 100% of the time. In this case you don’t have delicate invertebrates, but even the snails will be more sensitive to water issues than fish are.
Did you treat the fish when they were in quarantine? I’d advise using the one posted at the top of the disease forum here.
Jay

After checking the thread I see that I may not have put enough work in the QT, I have a glass bottom tank with filter "bit of media from main display inside" and kept them each for a week in there but did not attempt any pre treatments, or extended the time in QT past the 7 day mark as long as they were swimming and eating well.

I will definitely start a better set up and get some treatments before I attempt to get another fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

After checking the thread I see that I may not have put enough work in the QT, I have a glass bottom tank with filter "bit of media from main display inside" and kept them each for a week in there but did not attempt any pre treatments, or extended the time in QT past the 7 day mark as long as they were swimming and eating well.

I will definitely start a better set up and get some treatments before I attempt to get another fish.

Let the tank run with just invertebrates in it (no fish) for 60 to 75 days to clear out any remaining parasites.
Jay

 

[brandon429]

It isn’t possible for the cycle to be an issue here

to run qt of fish but skip fallowing of inverts is biosecurity risk as I read Jays article. Disease is ruled in vs ruled out in my opinion

qt sure needs to be extended and details to work it seems, not the eight day observation runs/ if I’m not wrong going average is 30 days in best practice, and with preventative meds for some expected vector species

At month 4 of current bioload carry and per pics he’s got the same rock stack ratio we all have, we’d rule out ammonia as an issue even if he posted the dreaded api .5

or the feared Red Sea .2 or estimated .4 Red Sea

any of them / any subjective report by a tester doesn’t sway the rules of updated cycling science and what all seneye owners already know rock stack reefs will run at for nh3 constants

if someone has been dumping copper or some poison into the display I’m not asking about that nor factoring it; folks are expected to be reefing normally and in that updated cycling science (the kind that never fears ammonia control in a reef tank) will be reliable.


@Rmckoy this is a good thread to reference because it won’t be two days until someone’s subjective relay of the ammonia approximation seems to indicate a dead cycle, not because they’re missing a rock stack or way past 30 days on a cycling chart wait times, they’ll fear the cycle because a cheap test kit may say so

we dont flex our cycle eval on reef tanks that employ water motion, heating, feed and constant bioload carry for 120 days.

updated cycling science assists here by removing cycling as a cause, look for exceptional sourcing, feeding, caring and prepping of fish above current levels as the cure for the issue. Nice thread example Rcm