Sore / Bump on Chromis

John Minnix · Feb 19, 2018

All,

I'm a new reefer. I did a fishless cycle with ammonia for about 6 weeks for my 133 gallon tank. I got the ammonia and nitrites testing zero everyday 24 hours after ammonia dose. Nitrates are at about 80 but I'm working to bring them down. I've got a small 10 gallon QT that's been up for about 8 weeks with a single Chromis in it.

I went to the LFS three days ago to buy some supplies and the guy at the store convinced me buy four Chromis to add to the display tank to keep the tank cycled. I mentioned that I was planning to QT everything but he said that these were healthy and that I didn't need to QT since there were no other fish in the tank. I probably shouldn't have listened to him but I was excited to get some fish in my tank after 6 weeks of staring at water and algae. I know, I know. QT everything.

The four Chromis are active and eating but yesterday I noticed a raised bump / blotch on one. None of the others seem to have this. The fish appears otherwise healthy, active and eating. The blotch appears to be bigger today, but I can't be sure. Anyone know what this may be? What should I do from here? I've read about uronema online, but this doesn't appear to be as red as that. I'm not sure what the early stages look like or how long it takes for the fish to get sick. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

John

Fudsey · Feb 19, 2018

Hard to tell from pics. I'd try to get a clearer pic
#reefsquad

Crabs McJones · Feb 19, 2018

If you have multiple chromis, chances are he's getting picked on by the other ones. I've noticed that when you try to do groups of chromis, they'll pick on one another until there is only one left.

Big G · Feb 19, 2018

Sorry. Looks like early stage Uronema. And that means the entire tank and fish have it too. Note the last sentence underlined and bolded. Here's Humblefish's advisory for the disease. I'm a big fan of Ruby Reef Rally (contains acriflavine) for it also has antibiotic and antiseptic qualities. Suggest consider a bath and then placing the bathed fish into a fresh tank.
EDIT: A fish infected with uronema should also be fed food soaked with metronidazole because the disease can spread internally. Seachem Focus can be used to bind the medication to the food.

Uronema marinum:

Symptoms - These are the red sores often seen on chromis damsels. The disease seems mostly confined to damsels and clownfish, but I have seen some exceptions to that.

Treatment options - This is a very difficult disease to treat. Possible treatment options include: Metronidazole (ex. Seachem MetroPlex), acriflavine (ex. Acriflavine-MS), Chloroquine phosphate and copper. The problem is the fish can never be returned to the infected tank from which it came. Uronema is a “free living” parasite which does not require a fish host. So, going fallow will not eradicate it. Most fish seem protected from it via their natural immune system; but for some reason, chromis and some other fish are not always afforded this protection. Once a tank has Uronema, it must be assumed that the disease can survive in there almost indefinitely.

Formalin bath or freshwater dip may provide temporary relief for Uronema.

Here's the posting by Humblefish on using acriflavine:

Acriflavine: This is an antiseptic that is very useful for rendering “first aid” if a fish has a bacterial infection or to treat an open wound. It can also be used as part of a “three step program” for treating Marine Velvet Disease: 5 minute freshwater dip, 75-90 minute acriflavine bath, and then prolonged exposure to copper or Chloroquine phosphate in a Quarantine Tank (QT).

There is also some anecdotal evidence that a 75-90 minute acriflavine bath, followed by transfer into a sterile Quarantine Tank can clear Brooklynella aka clownfish disease. However, until more research is done it is recommended to follow up the acriflavine bath by treating with metronidazole in the Quarantine Tank.

How To Treat – At present time there are two products on the market which contain acriflavine (dosage information below). Use either in a 75-90 minute bath, temperature controlling the water and providing plenty of aeration by using an air pump & air-stone. Ensure salinity, pH and temperature of bath & QT water match perfectly.

Acriflavine-MS: Add 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water.

Ruby Reef Rally: Add 1 ounce per 10 gallons of water. This breaks down to roughly 2/3 teaspoon of Rally per gallon if using less than 10 gallons.

Pros – Effective “pre-treatment” before fish is placed in QT with copper, antibiotics, etc.; milder/safer alternative to using formalin.

Cons/Side Effects – Turns the water an orange-brownish color, so probably not desirable for Quarantine or Display Tank use. Full range of positive effects and possible side effects are not completely understood at this time.

John Minnix · Feb 19, 2018

Here area couple of better pics from my camera vs. phone.

John Minnix · Feb 19, 2018

I called the LFS and they say the Chromis have been in there for @ 3 weeks and none other showing signs of uronema. Would the broader population have it too? This is a pretty high quality LFS with knowledgeable staff.

Big G · Feb 19, 2018

Hoping they are correct.

Be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.

Maritimer · Feb 19, 2018

My experience, that would be a very unusual group of Chromis.

Uronema is so common with Chromis that if I ever decided I wanted some, I'd treat for it prophylactically.

~Bruce

John Minnix · Feb 19, 2018

Thanks for your input guys. As someone new to the hobby, I'm confused as to why these are such popular starter fish given the propensity to disease. A lot of what I read beforehand referenced starting with Chromis. Seems I made a misstep. If its urenema, do I really need to empty the tank and bleach? I don't think I have the energy.

Florida Sunshine · Feb 19, 2018

I would be cautious with that LFS from now on. Actually I am always wary of LFS advice. They are there to sell you things. Some try to be helpful or tell you what they think they know, but I have been steered wrong too many times. Now I do the research on my own (often through R2R). Then I buy what I want from the LFS. Another lesson I have learned about LFS is that if they tell you the fish is eating, don't assume that means it is eating frozen food. I insist that they feed frozen food to the fish while I watch and see if it eats before I even consider buying it.

Maritimer · Feb 19, 2018

Uronema is an opportunist, preying on fish with weakened immune systems. In our tanks, it seems to affect Chromis disproportionately, though there are some who recommend against trying any damsel in a tank that's had an outbreak.

You should be able to keep many, many fish ... which aren't Chromis. You may even be able to keep the ones not affected and save the one that is, if you can get him past this using the methods in that article - but yeah.

Uronema's a bear.

~Bruce

Big G · Feb 19, 2018

John Minnix said:
Thanks for your input guys. As someone new to the hobby, I'm confused as to why these are such popular starter fish given the propensity to disease. A lot of what I read beforehand referenced starting with Chromis. Seems I made a misstep. If its urenema, do I really need to empty the tank and bleach? I don't think I have the energy.

A lot of folks look at Green Chromis as a "an inexpensive and disposable" tank starter fish. Sad but true.

Wear goggles and gloves: Bleach, rinse, rinse, dry to eliminate biofilm; vinegar, rinse, rinse, dry to precipitated out copper; hydrogen peroxide, rinse, rinse, dry to dissolve any carbon based debris.

John Minnix · Feb 19, 2018

Well, I spent an hour trying to catch the little guy to get him over to my QT but I can't seem to do it. If its uronema, how long would he last? If he's alive and well next weekend, am I out of the woods? I can't tell for sure how fast this progresses online, but it seems like most folks have their fish die on them in a day or two.

melypr1985 · Feb 19, 2018

John Minnix said:
Well, I spent an hour trying to catch the little guy to get him over to my QT but I can't seem to do it. If its uronema, how long would he last? If he's alive and well next weekend, am I out of the woods? I can't tell for sure how fast this progresses online, but it seems like most folks have their fish die on them in a day or two.

It's likely that he will be gone within a few days, a week at most. I don't care what the guy says, I guarantee he's lost at least 25% of his group of chromis since they arrived at his shop. I hate bringing chromis into the shop since I tend to lose them constantly, despite treating prophylactically for uronema and infection.

Unfortunately uronema will always be in the tank, however it shouldn't be too much of a problem for you as long as your fish's immune systems stay strong. It's mainly going to affect damselfish like clowns, damsels and chromis, but it's very possible for it to affect other types of fish as well.

John Minnix · Feb 23, 2018

All,

Update. The fish seemed to be doing relatively well but today was dead at the bottom of the tank. The spot never got bloody looking, however, like I've seen in the pictures. Also, no additional spots materialized and he never lost color like I've read about. Could this be a different parasite or some kind of a wound? The other Chromis all look 100% normal still.

Also, there's one thing I don't understand. If uronema lives in many Chromis and it says in the tank forever, wouldn't basically every tank I ever buy fish or live rock from be contaminated with uronema? It seems most of the bigger fish places have their tanks set up as sort of one huge system with water moving between them. I've never been to a store that didn't have chromis. It would stand to reason that all of their tanks contain uronema then, correct?

Thanks for your advice. I'm hoping I can up my reefing skills after this apparent initial fail

John

Heidi S · Aug 2, 2018

John,

I may have made the exact same mistake, and I also have the same question. Either my chromis had the parasite already, or it was already living in the live rock that I put in the tank when I set it up.

My LFS has many of its tanks set up on the same system so I agree that its likely EVERYWHERE. If you wipe out your tank and clorox everything, how do you know you wont have the same problem again just by simply putting in new live rock. Do you have each and every piece of rock and coral tested for this parasite or do you clorox everything you put in your tank. This just does not seam like a feasible option to me. Also, if every person that comes across this issue nukes their tank every time it happens, we would all be restarting tanks every few months.

Theres got to be a better option. But I can say one thing for sure....I wont be buying any more chromis again. Which is unfortunate cause I love seeing a small school of them.

What did you end up doing to treat your tank?

John Minnix · Aug 2, 2018

Heidi,

Does your fish look like the pic of my fish? I'm pretty sure my chromis were just biting each other. These little critters are pretty mean. I started with four. The first one that I took the pic of died. Two of the remaining three started picking on the third, it developed similar wounds and died. After that, the final two have settled in. They have gotten bigger and seem to be healthy and get along for the most part.

I've since added a number of fish to the tank after QT and there have been no disease outbreaks. I did have a clown that started to get fin rot, but I moved it back to the QT and was able to nurse it back to health.

So, bottom line, you may not have a disease, only mean chromis. Either way, I had decided I was just going to proceed with the tank, even if there was disease. I don't have the time or energy to break down the tank and, from what I've read, as long as you keep healthy water and low stress fish, most fish can fight off most diseases. I've still been QTing the fish, however.

Good luck!

John

Heidi S · Aug 2, 2018

John,

i started my tank and let it cycle for a month. i am upgrading from a 30 gal to a 60 gal. 2 weeks ago i put in 2 chromis and 2 pajama cardinals to help the tank finish cycling. my ultimate goal is to move everything from my 30 into the 60 and break down the 30. i lost both of my chromis. once they showed signs of the disease they were dead in 24 hours. their spots were red and grew rapidly. i attached a photo. these chromis had been in my LFS for 3+ weeks before i bought them. i got the last 2 in the tank. they ate well and showed normal behavior initially. there were no signs of any distress until the external makers started to show and then within 24 hours they were dead. the 1st one showed a spot and died and then within 3 days the 2nd one showed a spot and died.

the 2 pajama cardinals show no signs whatsoever and are still eating like pigs. no visible signs of sores on them at all.

i too do not have the energy to tear down a brand new setup. i do not want to kill all of my live rock and sand. this tank has been running only about 6 weeks. i have successfully run my 30 gallon for 6 years without QTing anything. maybe i have just gotten lucky. but im very hesitant to put any of my existing fish in my 30 gal over into my 60 gal yet considering what im reading about nuronema. the owner of my LFS and i have discussed it quite a bit and he is of the opinion that it doesnt make sense to nuke the new 60 gal tank as well.

i agree with you though that this parasite is likely everywhere. i just dont see the feasibility of being able to test everything that goes into the tank. im going to need to buy more live rock as it is and theres no way to know for 100% certainty that this parasite wont be in it.

at the moment, my plan is to attempt to buy another fish (NOT a chromis) and see how it does in the 60 gal before transferring any of my fish over from the 30 gal. i may throw in 2 firefish and see how they do. if they survive for a month or so i may continue on.

im really at a loss because i dont want to tear down my 30 gal till im sure that i dont have a significant problem in this 60. and i dont want to destroy all of my live rock i have in the 60. but if im going to tear it down i need to do it before i get too deep that i loose a lot of money in rock and coral. ive already put several corals in it as well. what im reading says that basically i cant put the corals back in the tank either if i clorox it cause the corals might house the parasite as well.

this is making me have tank regret. the thought has crossed my mind to just take my 2 cardinals and corals from the 60 gal back to my LFS and just tear down the new tank and sell it and keep my 30 gal as is.