Spotted Scorpion Fish

[LouisianaReef]

Would Seachem Kanaplex be a safe treatment for bacterial in conjunction with the hypo salinity treatment?

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Would Seachem Kanaplex be a safe treatment for bacterial in conjunction with the hypo salinity treatment?

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

Yes, but I use Neoplex more often and eye issues often respond well to erythromycin.
This may not be an infection, it could be physical damage from flukes.

Jay

 

[LouisianaReef]

Yes, but I use Neoplex more often and eye issues often respond well to erythromycin.
This may not be an infection, it could be physical damage from flukes.

Jay

I can get the kanaplex sooner than anything else from Amazon. Would you against treating prophylactically? Starting with a low dose and working up due to eels in case they are sensitive to it.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I can get the kanaplex sooner than anything else from Amazon. Would you against treating prophylactically? Starting with a low dose and working up due to eels in case they are sensitive to it.

I don’t know of any specific issue with eels and kanaplex, but there is no benefit from ramping it up slowly, it isn’t like the fish build a tolerance to antibiotics.
Jay

 

[LouisianaReef]

I don’t know of any specific issue with eels and kanaplex, but there is no benefit from ramping it up slowly, it isn’t like the fish build a tolerance to antibiotics.
Jay

I ordered enough kanaplex to treat my whole system with a full dosage recommended by seachem. Hopefully between the hypo salinity and kanaplex it will knock out all the issues with both the scorpion fish and the trigger. So far no one else in the system shows signs of any distress or illness. I’m planning on running the hypo for 40 days or 35 since last signs of illness, whichever comes first and then increasing the salinity back to 1.021- 1.022 over a week or two.

 

[vetteguy53081]

You never use hypo as a treatment or do you mean you would not use meds in conjunction with hypo?

I dont use meds with hypo

 

[vetteguy53081]

Would something like Fritz MaracynOxy be an appropriate treatment? Im looking at what Amazon could have delivered asap

Oxy doesnt work as well as other meds on market.

 

[LouisianaReef]

@Jay Hemdal

Would you agree with a freshwater dip for the scorpion fish for possible relief of flukes while continuing the hypo and awaiting antibiotics for secondary bacterial infection?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

Would you agree with a freshwater dip for the scorpion fish for possible relief of flukes while continuing the hypo and awaiting antibiotics for secondary bacterial infection?

No, I wouldn't do that. It would only cause additional stress. The flukes will have already dropped off due to being at hypo, so this is either previous physical damage from the flukes that have dropped off, or it is a bacterial infection.

Jay

 

[LouisianaReef]

I am at 5 days hypo and did the second dose of kanaplex this morning. I know that meds and stuff take time to start working but it doesn’t seem like it is having much effect of the eyes of the scorpion fish or the overall condition of the trigger fish. Both are still eating well. The body color the of trigger comes and goes, I.e. sometimes washed out and pale, other times normal looking. Same with his tail, sometimes it clamped closed and other times it’s not.

I plan on finishing the course of kanaplex, but if no improvement is seen after the treatment how long should I wait before another treatment and what would you recommend as a treatment plan if no improvement is seen after the kanaplex?

@Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am at 5 days hypo and did the second dose of kanaplex this morning. I know that meds and stuff take time to start working but it doesn’t seem like it is having much effect of the eyes of the scorpion fish or the overall condition of the trigger fish. Both are still eating well. The body color the of trigger comes and goes, I.e. sometimes washed out and pale, other times normal looking. Same with his tail, sometimes it clamped closed and other times it’s not.

I plan on finishing the course of kanaplex, but if no improvement is seen after the treatment how long should I wait before another treatment and what would you recommend as a treatment plan if no improvement is seen after the kanaplex?

@Jay Hemdal

Hypo needs to be run 30 to 35 days. If you want to try another antibiotic, I'd suggest trying Neoplex next.

Jay

 

[LouisianaReef]

Hypo needs to be run 30 to 35 days. If you want to try another antibiotic, I'd suggest trying Neoplex next.

Jay

I am only going to try another antibiotic if they don’t improve after the hypo and kanaplex treatment. But if it is needed would you recommend treating the system with neoplex or dosing it in food?

 

[lion king]

I know I'm late to the party, scorp definitely needs antibiotic and kanaplex has been a successful treatment. Any use of an antibiotic needs to be in a hospital not a display, there will absorption and you will never get an accurate dosage. I would remove the scorp to a hospital tank and accurately dose the kanaplex.

 

[LouisianaReef]

I know I'm late to the party, scorp definitely needs antibiotic and kanaplex has been a successful treatment. Any use of an antibiotic needs to be in a hospital not a display, there will absorption and you will never get an accurate dosage. I would remove the scorp to a hospital tank and accurately dose the kanaplex.

well it’s a 340 gallon system and @Jay Hemdal was worried about possible ich or flukes as well so I brought the system down to hypo salinity for that.

If you look back in this thread there is a trigger show signs of illness as well. I really wanted to avoid tearing down such a large system in order to catch the scorpion and trigger so I have treated the entire system with kanaplex. The third and final dose of it is due is in the morning. Jay suggested trying neoplex if the kanaplex doesn’t work.
@lion king

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am only going to try another antibiotic if they don’t improve after the hypo and kanaplex treatment. But if it is needed would you recommend treating the system with neoplex or dosing it in food?

Dosing in food is difficult to do correctly, and isn’t very effective against external issues (baths work better for that).
If you want to explore medicated food, check this article out:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[lion king]

well it’s a 340 gallon system and @Jay Hemdal was worried about possible ich or flukes as well so I brought the system down to hypo salinity for that.

If you look back in this thread there is a trigger show signs of illness as well. I really wanted to avoid tearing down such a large system in order to catch the scorpion and trigger so I have treated the entire system with kanaplex. The third and final dose of it is due is in the morning. Jay suggested trying neoplex if the kanaplex doesn’t work.
@lion king

My opinion because you can not test for antibiotics, dosing antibiotics in a display is a waste of time. Lets use copper as an example, because you can test for copper. I;ll use my 210g with about 200lbs of rock as an actual study. I had to use twice the recommended amount of copper dosing to tank size, not even water volume; to reach the therapeutic level. You can not even guess what percentage will be absorbed before saturation, so you will never get an accurate dose. You can't just guess and double the dose, because now you'll risk an overdose.

I only respond in the disease forum when it involves fish from the Scorpaenidae, eels, and some other predatory fish; because this is my forte. Most times scorps don't need the intervention of antibiotics, from what I can tell, this one does. You will never get an adequate dose in a tank with porous material, and an under dose will never effectively remedy the situation.

 

[lion king]

well it’s a 340 gallon system and @Jay Hemdal was worried about possible ich or flukes as well so I brought the system down to hypo salinity for that.

If you look back in this thread there is a trigger show signs of illness as well. I really wanted to avoid tearing down such a large system in order to catch the scorpion and trigger so I have treated the entire system with kanaplex. The third and final dose of it is due is in the morning. Jay suggested trying neoplex if the kanaplex doesn’t work.
@lion king

In the case of scorps and eels, I see you have an eel; dosing in food is ineffective. Because of the nature of their fast/gorge feeding cycle you can never get an effective dose even if you "could" get them to take daily meals. Neither can tolerate copper and antiobiotics wouldn't be used for flukes, but the scorp is past that, and a secondary infection is something I would worry about, and antibiotics would be recommended.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My opinion because you can not test for antibiotics, dosing antibiotics in a display is a waste of time. Lets use copper as an example, because you can test for copper. I;ll use my 210g with about 200lbs of rock as an actual study. I had to use twice the recommended amount of copper dosing to tank size, not even water volume; to reach the therapeutic level. You can not even guess what percentage will be absorbed before saturation, so you will never get an accurate dose. You can't just guess and double the dose, because now you'll risk an overdose.

I only respond in the disease forum when it involves fish from the Scorpaenidae, eels, and some other predatory fish; because this is my forte. Most times scorps don't need the intervention of antibiotics, from what I can tell, this one does. You will never get an adequate dose in a tank with porous material, and an under dose will never effectively remedy the situation.

I normally don’t suggest people dose their DT with ABX, but In this case, the OP had already dosed with Kanaplex.

The issue isn’t that the ABX will be absorbed or adsorbed onto the substrate like copper is, but rather, it has the potential to damage the microbiome.

Jay

 

[LouisianaReef]

I am sad to report that the triggerfish in this thread is no longer with us. It seems the kanaplex had little to no effect on the trigger nor the scorp. The scorp eyes are still cloudy and show no signs of improvement, although he continues to eat and behave normally.

At this point I am not sure what to do for him other than let it play out and see if he can manage to fight off the illness on his own. I could attempt to remove him from the display tank into a QT tank but I don't know what I would attempt to treat him with since kanaplex had no effect and scorps are tricky when it comes to meds.

@lion king

 

[lion king]

I am sad to report that the triggerfish in this thread is no longer with us. It seems the kanaplex had little to no effect on the trigger nor the scorp. The scorp eyes are still cloudy and show no signs of improvement, although he continues to eat and behave normally.

At this point I am not sure what to do for him other than let it play out and see if he can manage to fight off the illness on his own. I could attempt to remove him from the display tank into a QT tank but I don't know what I would attempt to treat him with since kanaplex had no effect and scorps are tricky when it comes to meds.

@lion king

Many times scorps can fight off injuries and mild infections on their own without intervention. Here's the caveat, water quality must be near perfect and optimally they would get a live diet, primarily fish. Guppies or appropriately sized mollies, gut loaded ghost shrimp with a high vitamin c food could also be included. If you are feeding dead foods, stuff with high vitamin c pellets, Hikari makes a good one. Dead foods must include a fatty fish like salmon and be low in thiaminese, so no krill.