SPS not thriving in Dead Rock system vs Live Rock system .

Tklb

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My tanks has 100% Dry Fiji Live Rock from BRS. Added Bio-Spira, Pods, Micro Stars, 4 types of snails, and Bristle Worms, and it is fine. Grows Acros really well starting about 6 months in. Might have done well earlier than that, but I didn't put many SPS into the tank until around 6 months. I think like anything else in this hobby, if you try to take a system as dynamic as our tanks, and only look at one variable, you will get anecdotal evidence. Now I have tons of sponges, mini feather duster worms, and all kinds of stuff I didn't have in the beginning. I started with a dozen bristle worms, and now have hundreds and hundreds.
 

rtparty

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I have been contemplating starting a thread called: The Epidemic of Dry Rock and then journaling my story. Which can basically be found in another thread already titled Algae? ID.

I've started past tanks with dry rock many times but always threw in sand, algae and at least one or two pieces of live rock from an established system. This time I started all dry, live sand from a bag, MicroBacter7 and chaeto from an established system. Things went really well for the first couple months. Then all hell broke loose and it's been a battle since. The awesome community here pointed me in the right direction and things are changing. I have all LPS and 1 monti. Everything is thriving right now and my dinos are all but gone.

My biggest complaint is the lack of good quality live rock being available to us. Locally our stores are underwhelming to say the least and true live rock is non existent. So going dry is the best route and waiting the 6+ months. Or buy from a system that someone is taking down but then run the real risk of serious pests. Especially around these parts.
 

jda

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Some of the issues with dry/dead rock, but mostly man made might not be seen for years. The man-made rock that I have borrowed and "tested" (in the very most loose sense of the word) is very dense and probably not a good home for anoxic bacteria and/or burrowing microfauna. I got a piece of shelf Real Reef, poured saltwater on the top of it in a puddle and the puddle was there a few days later until the water evaporated - the epoxy that they covered it in sealed all of the good parts of the rock. Going back to when it was Atlantic vs. Pacific rock, the Atlantic rock was always more dense and tanks that used it had a harder time denitrifying - the quarried stuff.

Live rock has always been available through cali, but you usually had to buy by the box. I just order fiji/pukani "boat rock" anymore for about $2 a pound and have it shipped to the local airport and I pick it up at the airfreight terminal. Sometimes, I get some larger tonga branch. It needs about 3-4 weeks cure time, but I have patience. There are many people who sell the exact same stuff from the same sources under different names.

The worst part about buying "used" rock is that it can be bound up of all kinds of phosphate. If you can find rock from a good, solid reefer who had a low-phoshpate system, then get it in a heartbeat. It does take 3-4 months to "cook" (not in an oven) rock to get it phosphate and gunk free, but can be well worth the time. If anybody is selling any Marshall Island rock, I will cook it for years if I need to - that stuff was as good as it got once Great Barrier Reef stopped coming in.
 

reefer4816

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What’s your guys’ input on a frag tank ran only on marinepure blocks or something similar?

Not asking about potential aluminum. Only asking if you think this substitute will eventually “mature”
 

Punchanello

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I am using 100% man made dry rock in my tank. I started up the tank once in January this year and ended up tearing it down in April due to an uncontrollable infestation of dinos. In that tank, SPS were not dying (until much later on when they got smothered by the dinos) and exhibited good colouration and polyp extension, but I experienced the same issue that they were simply not encrusting.

After bleaching the entire system to get rid of dinos, I restarted the tank again in May and started to stock SPS at the end of May/start of June. By August, all my SPS had shown obvious encrustation and they were all doing well. 80% of my SPS were wild colonies, 20% were frags purchased from a local reefer. I did lose a few wild colonies, as is usual, but not a significant amount (and a large majority of those I lost were those purchased from an importer with a track record of most of his shipments ending up dead - his holding tanks are bad). The tank is now slightly over 5 months old and the SPS are thriving.

The differences between the 2 attempts this year:
1. Massive bottled bacteria dosing during the start up of the 2nd successful attempt, well beyond the recommended amounts on the bottles
2. Purchased the 44,000+ order of mixed copepods from Algaebarn and dosed them in early in the 2nd successful attempt
3. Added a refugium in the sump for the 2nd successful attempt - obtained macroalgae from established reefers
4. Switched dosing systems from Fauna Marin Zeolight system (1st attempt) to Tropic Marin Reef Actif system(2nd attempt), which includes weekly dosing of a product called "Reef Mud Vital" - which is supposed to be mud harvested from Fiji containing microbes and other organisms

I think that the proactive addition of various micro organisms from bacteria to copepods to whatever the reef mud includes made a difference in my case.
This is interesting.

In my area there are few LFS and only one that sells live rock which would be a dodgy proposition by the looks of it. So most around here use manufactured or dry rock. Lots of them have succesful tanks.

I wonder how many people reporting problems with Dino's, algae etc with manufactured rock a. Actively add microfauna, bacterial etc and b. Top up their biological filtration with other media to compensate for the lack of dry/live reef rock?
 

Coronus

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It took around 9 months for things in my system to start working even though water was spot on.
The secret IMO is fish. A properly stocked bioload and proper feeding techniques will keep acros colored and alive. Along with a million other things lol. Like stable alk. But add those wonderful fish and feed them well.
The tank will mature.
 

reef life

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I went with dry rock this time around. Started tank cycle March 1st and as soon as it cycled I began adding corals(30 Day cycle). Slowly added SPS with success. It did take at least 6 months to see growth in my sticks. I battled PolyClads last system that I had running for over 8 years. Dry rock ensures no pest with new beginning. Like everyone is saying, Stability and Fish!.:D
 

Luno

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I know this is an old thread but it popped up for me while googling and thought I'd throw some person experience in. I'm no chemist nor biology expert but I can't fathom how much biological diversity can affect sps or any coral for that matter. Provided the water is stable, flow and lighting is adequate I don't see why. Now some of this takes time to get stability. My most recent sps dominant tank, be that it is a nano. Started from all dead rock. I had sps (acropora) in the tank since about 2 weeks after cycle. Everything has flourished, grown and nothing has been lost except for one acro recently from a doser malfunction messing up my alk. I've had a clam in there since about 2 months and a mandarin since about 4-5 months. Tank is nearly 9 months old and is still flourishing

784a761c71118a446259db764baa37a3.jpg
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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If live rock is required, how’d my lfs plate some of their for sale frags onto egg crate in the holding tank bc the frags didn’t sell for a while? That’s a zero live rock frag tank and the acros locked themselves into place over the plug

Lps too


Feeding quality and export makes up for missing food web
 

BoomCorals

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If live rock is required, how’d my lfs plate some of their for sale frags onto egg crate in the holding tank bc the frags didn’t sell for a while? That’s a zero live rock frag tank and the acros locked themselves into place over the plug

Lps too


Feeding quality and export makes up for missing food web
I'd be surprised if they didn't have a sump on that holding tank system with LR somewhere.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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https://blog.marinedepot.com/2015/04/how-to-frag-corals-and-build-a-frag-tank.html


They had a sump but not with live rocks in it, with skimmer and some fish in the frag area to eat algae.

MD mentions it above my lfs had the same approach
Am searching for any actual growth examples online though

Roti feast will feed sps where live rock is missing, and phyto culturing too can make up for the lack of diversity. no lr practice is common since the fear of bad hitchhiking is rampant. Me personally I love live rock, won’t be without it


https://reefbuilders.com/2018/04/12/this-is-what-a-reef-tank-looks-like-with-no-filter/
 
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dricc

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I am going to go with garf grunge to hopefully give me biodiversity and minimize the chance of pest hitchhikers.( I am starting with old live rock ,now dead, from a tank I had running about 18 years ago)
 

Fourstars

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Scientist and doctors have found how important microfauna is in our intestines. Why would a reef tank be any different??? Use live rock.
 

Luno

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Scientist and doctors have found how important microfauna is in our intestines. Why would a reef tank be any different??? Use live rock.

There are many ways to add this, it may even be one small live rock, it could be half a cup of live sand from an established tank. It could be with the algae used in a refugium. So many ways to add biodiversity to a system that doesn't require a tank full of live rock.
 

Fourstars

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There are many ways to add this, it may even be one small live rock, it could be half a cup of live sand from an established tank. It could be with the algae used in a refugium. So many ways to add biodiversity to a system that doesn't require a tank full of live rock.

Good point. If you break a piece of live rock you can see the bacteria goes deep into the rock, not to mention the benefits of Coralline algae, sponges crustaceans worms and microorganisms.
 

shred5

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I did one tank dry rock and no issues after bleaching and vinegar bath and a month of cycling.

Another tank I did the same thing I had so many phosphates leaching from the rock for 6 months I junked it and went with live rock. Problem is allot of this rock is mined and we do not know if it is near the top and fertilizer has leached in, we go not know what may have died in the rock. I am back to live rock like Tampa bay Saltwater or real reef rock no more dead rock. What a waste of time and money.
 

AtlCPA

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For aquascape purposes I'm thinking if dry rock in the DT tank and a 100 gallon rubbermaid sump with as much live rock as I can reasonably fit.

Anyone think that will work? I've seen the YouTube video of paletta saying he could not get his new tank going until he introduced live rock. And I've had a tough time with a new frag tank. No question the LV makes a huge difference.
 

Luno

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For aquascape purposes I'm thinking if dry rock in the DT tank and a 100 gallon rubbermaid sump with as much live rock as I can reasonably fit.

Anyone think that will work? I've seen the YouTube video of paletta saying he could not get his new tank going until he introduced live rock. And I've had a tough time with a new frag tank. No question the LV makes a huge difference.

Sounds like a good plan, I'm a big fan of dead rock for scaping purposes. You may not need to add a ridiculous amount of live rock to the sump though. Diversity is the key. As I said above maybe a live rock, half a cup of live sand from an established tank, a refugium is an easy way to add diverse life. Just do so after cycle.
 

Luno

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I also use NSW for my large tanks because I live on the east coast of Australia and collection is easy for me and much cheaper than buying salt. How much beneficial bacteria is added from what's in the water column in not sure but it's gotta be something right??
 

AtlCPA

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Sounds like a good plan, I'm a big fan of dead rock for scaping purposes. You may not need to add a ridiculous amount of live rock to the sump though. Diversity is the key. As I said above maybe a live rock, half a cup of live sand from an established tank, a refugium is an easy way to add diverse life. Just do so after cycle.

I'm going to be setting up a 300g deep deminson. Will 50lbs of live rock make much of a difference? Not sure I could fit much more than that. May be able to do a 150gal Rubbermaid
 

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