SPS TANK NIGHTMARE, about to throw in towel!!

branbray07

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Hey reefers.
So im seriously about to throw in the towel on this tank. Its has been issue after issue. Specially with corals, particalary SPS. They do decently for about a week maybe two , they even throw growth tips thenn.. POOFF the start to deteriorate . They eventually start showing burnt tips, and stn from base, and at time RTN. I just don't know what to do, no what it could be. Im seriously considering throwing the towel. LPS seem to do very good, specially zoas and a hammer i have. Parameter have been very stable and consistent . I have Checks for pest, and cant seem to find any . Only a gazillions pods arround frags

About Tank
Age 15months
57gal Fiji Cube ext, Fiji cube 24 sump
30lbs Aquaforest dry rock
10 of rock ruble from 2 different mature tanks (5yr plus)

Equipment
2 Radions g5 xr15 at 50% 9 hrs wwc schedule
4 bulb t5 off currently 2 c+ 2 B+
1 Simplicity dc120 skimmer
Jebao Return
Chiller
4 MLW 20 FLOW at 70% Wave
1 bag passive carbon red sea

Tank is completely covered in coraline. Glass all for sides gets scraped except back, pumps covered, sand covered , rock, snails etc, covered. Sump is teaming with pods, sponges, worms, everything you could want in tank.

Maintanance/
Weekly 10% water changes Aquaforest reef salt

Params
Alk 7 Red Sea/Spin Touch
Calc 400 Hanna/ Spin Touch
Mag 1300 Red Sea /Spin Touch
Po4 .15- .20 Hanna/ Spin Touch(.2)
Na3 20ppm Hanna/ Spin Touch
Temp 78f - 79F solid!!
Salt 1.025
PH 7.9 - 8.1

Only doing is Kalk 20ml daily for ph/ alk /calc
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njreefkeeper

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Just my opinion but your po4 and nitrate are high related to the alkalinty and low percentage of the light you’re using. That’s a high nutrient tank. Match it with more light and bump the alkalinty into the 8’s…even 9’s and I think you’ll see an improvement. If your coralline algae is taking off like crazy it’s also usually a sign the SPS aren’t taking up much in the way of alkalinty and calcium. Once SPS start growing well in any of my systems over the last 20 years, the coralline starts to grow a little slower…not faster.

The WWC schedule is pretty low in par…especially running it at 50%. I know you have the t5’s but they need some more light and alkalinty and calcium if you’re going to keep nutrients that high. And don’t forget flow. A 57 gallon tank is tough to get flow dialed in for SPS because it’s always going to look like too much when in fact it’ll be just right. The smaller the tank, the harder it becomes to have a mixed reef. If you e got sand, it should be moving around a lot in that footprint if it’s got SPS in it.

Hope that helps
 

Dooly

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Curious, Did you change salt brands in the last few months?
 

njreefkeeper

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If your T5s are off and your XR15s are only at 50% then you have extremely low par in the tank. I run my XR15s at 100% AB program and barely get 350 par at the top of my tank additionally your phosphate is high, magnesium is low.
Yep. My thought is that the decision needs to be made whether to be a high nutrient, high element, high light, high flow tank or be on the lower side where the current light and elements are. IMO, in a 3 foot tank, it’s easier to keep it on the lower end because the flow you’d need to generate to support high par and nutrients (especially in a rimless tank) would be a washing machine for the fish.
 

willpower

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It seems like you have given alot of thought into your setup and maintenance. Much more than others that have done well with their setups.I believe SPS can be grown in high nutrient and low light situations, and your system doesn't reach that extreme. If there are no pests / fish / CUC you think are going rogue (for example I've had emeralds rip off chunks of healthy tissue off my SPS), it is possible there are some parameter swings you are not accounting for. Perhaps you think your temp is solid but its swinging a lot, etc. I'm assuming you use RODI, have you done ICP tests? Electricity in the water? It could also be where you are getting the SPS from and the shipping is taking too long or the parameters are much different from your tank. I don't know anyone that uses your salt as well.

Otherwise have you tried just planting a Bali Green Slimer/Stag in the tank and seeing how it does? They are pretty hardy.
 

Lavey29

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Yep. My thought is that the decision needs to be made whether to be a high nutrient, high element, high light, high flow tank or be on the lower side where the current light and elements are. IMO, in a 3 foot tank, it’s easier to keep it on the lower end because the flow you’d need to generate to support high par and nutrients (especially in a rimless tank) would be a washing machine for the fish.
Mixed reefs are hard to balance. He should also try easy SPS instead like stylo, monti digi and birdnest.
 

Acrofiend

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I’d also bump up the par or start turning on those t5’s for 8 hours a day.
Final tip: remove the carbon. I’ve had issues with bad carbon that caused stn. So I stopped using it completely. If I do I use 1/4 recommended dose. Do you notice it happens after you replaced the carbon?
 

knockout

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Just my opinion but your po4 and nitrate are high related to the alkalinty and low percentage of the light you’re using. That’s a high nutrient tank. Match it with more light and bump the alkalinty into the 8’s…even 9’s and I think you’ll see an improvement. If your coralline algae is taking off like crazy it’s also usually a sign the SPS aren’t taking up much in the way of alkalinty and calcium. Once SPS start growing well in any of my systems over the last 20 years, the coralline starts to grow a little slower…not faster.

The WWC schedule is pretty low in par…especially running it at 50%. I know you have the t5’s but they need some more light and alkalinty and calcium if you’re going to keep nutrients that high. And don’t forget flow. A 57 gallon tank is tough to get flow dialed in for SPS because it’s always going to look like too much when in fact it’ll be just right. The smaller the tank, the harder it becomes to have a mixed reef. If you e got sand, it should be moving around a lot in that footprint if it’s got SPS in it.

Hope that helps
Interesting, I hadn't come across this nutrients / alkalinity correlation, any chance you could supply a link to a write up or thread discussion for our benefit, Thanks
 
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branbray07

branbray07

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Just my opinion but your po4 and nitrate are high related to the alkalinty and low percentage of the light you’re using. That’s a high nutrient tank. Match it with more light and bump the alkalinty into the 8’s…even 9’s and I think you’ll see an improvement. If your coralline algae is taking off like crazy it’s also usually a sign the SPS aren’t taking up much in the way of alkalinty and calcium. Once SPS start growing well in any of my systems over the last 20 years, the coralline starts to grow a little slower…not faster.

The WWC schedule is pretty low in par…especially running it at 50%. I know you have the t5’s but they need some more light and alkalinty and calcium if you’re going to keep nutrients that high. And don’t forget flow. A 57 gallon tank is tough to get flow dialed in for SPS because it’s always going to look like too much when in fact it’ll be just right. The smaller the tank, the harder it becomes to have a mixed reef. If you e got sand, it should be moving around a lot in that footprint if it’s got SPS in it.

Hope that helps
I have tried both Alk in the higher end 9ish with nutrientes this high and lights ramped up to match , and lower end with nutrients lower. Same results. Burned tips, STN ETC. I started to raise nutrients because as you see , corals seem starving. I usually run WWC at 70% with 6 hrs of t5s. I decided to lower intensity to see if it would aid with the stresses out corals. Lights at 10in above water, and its only a 15in deep tank. FLOW is very very violent and random. I dont get sand blown as much, since i use Tropic Eden Mesosflakes , so they dont get blown as much. I made the switch 5 months ago from Special grade that would get blown everywhere.
 
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branbray07

branbray07

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If your T5s are off and your XR15s are only at 50% then you have extremely low par in the tank. I run my XR15s at 100% AB program and barely get 350 par at the top of my tank additionally your phosphate is high, magnesium is low.
How tall is your tank, how high of the tank are your light mounted? Mine is only 15 inches deep, and lights ate 10' from water as i said. "I usually run WWC at 70% with 6 hrs of t5". Only lowered since sps seemed stressed
Curious, Did you change salt brands in the last few months?
Been Using AF for last 4 months.
Why would you want to throw in the towel just because you are having issues with SPS? I can grow Goni's and the same, SPS will thrive, and then bam. So, I just don't stock my tank with them anymore.
Its just a saying, i wouldn't do that. I am by no means a noob to the hobby nor sps. I have been doing this for 15 yrs. However never ever have i had so many issues.
 
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branbray07

branbray07

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It seems like you have given alot of thought into your setup and maintenance. Much more than others that have done well with their setups.I believe SPS can be grown in high nutrient and low light situations, and your system doesn't reach that extreme. If there are no pests / fish / CUC you think are going rogue (for example I've had emeralds rip off chunks of healthy tissue off my SPS), it is possible there are some parameter swings you are not accounting for. Perhaps you think your temp is solid but its swinging a lot, etc. I'm assuming you use RODI, have you done ICP tests? Electricity in the water? It could also be where you are getting the SPS from and the shipping is taking too long or the parameters are much different from your tank. I don't know anyone that uses your salt as well.

Otherwise have you tried just planting a Bali Green Slimer/Stag in the tank and seeing how it does? They are pretty hardy.
I have checked thoroughly for pest day and night. Also, checked for stray current. Last ICP was done in Sep, and showed high Zinc a low Iodine nothing else was alarming.
Mixed reefs are hard to balance. He should also try easy SPS instead like stylo, monti digi and birdnest.
It's actually not a mixed reef. Its supposed to be a SPS tank, however they are kicking the bucket lol. I have 4 zoas and a hammer, and a blastos all thriving and were given to me for free a while back. Basically test corals.
Don’t touch your phosphate or nitrates. The more you move them the more stressed your corals will get. Send in an ICP. Also check for bugs or rusting magnets.
I just did nothing seemed rusted. Will resend again
I’d also bump up the par or start turning on those t5’s for 8 hours a day.
Final tip: remove the carbon. I’ve had issues with bad carbon that caused stn. So I stopped using it completely. If I do I use 1/4 recommended dose. Do you notice it happens after you replaced the carbon?
No , no never noticed any difference with or without carbon.

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ReefHunter006

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Your situation seems so similiar to mine. Multiple thriving tanks. New DT hates SPS. Seems we have a lot of similarities, but I have yet to find a cause. Happy to share the link to the club form I have been tracking it on if you want to take a look to see if you notice any trends. Nothing stood out to me on my review.
 

shakacuz

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use some polyfilter to remove the metals from your water, send another ICP and see where your levels are at.zinc is very high as you identified.

as some have mentioned, i believe the combination of lack of PAR and low ALK relative to your no3/po4 is low. i’m actually on the opposite side of things with high ALK and low nutrients and have 3 SPS bleaching/STN at the base
 
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branbray07

branbray07

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Your situation seems so similiar to mine. Multiple thriving tanks. New DT hates SPS. Seems we have a lot of similarities, but I have yet to find a cause. Happy to share the link to the club form I have been tracking it on if you want to take a look to see if you notice any trends. Nothing stood out to me on my review.
Sure thing man please share. Any knowledge is great.
use some polyfilter to remove the metals from your water, send another ICP and see where your levels are at.zinc is very high as you identified.

as some have mentioned, i believe the combination of lack of PAR and low ALK relative to your no3/po4 is low. i’m actually on the opposite side of things with high ALK and low nutrients and have 3 SPS bleaching/STN at the base
Funny thing is that when tank high alk and nitrients in the higher end, the effects were the same .
 

shakacuz

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Funny thing is that when tank high alk and nitrients in the higher end, the effects were the same .
with this i would safely assume your issue is perhaps lighting coupled with trace elements/metals (lack of or too high)
 

odariel

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Well, i have to say that even though some people here say its fine, for me .15-.2 phosphate has never worked... SPS don't like such a high level of phosphate (in my experience, not saying it does not work for others, but everytime my P04 goes above .1 things start to go wrong.. Not so much with high nitrate, some of the best coloration in my acros happen with Nitrate between 15 and 20, but high phospate never has worked (again, for me) I would personally lower that parameter and see what happens from there. Very easy to do with a bit of lanthanum. Also the ICP is a good idea, just in case some heavy metals found their way in the tank somehow. Good luck and keep us informed.
 

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