SPS TANK NIGHTMARE, about to throw in towel!!

[branbray07]

Here are pics of my new nightmare lmaoo. Pics are about 6 months old here, also the biospheres were replace 5 months ago with live rock turned to rubble from a very very stablished set up.

 

[Battlecorals]

WOW NOW IM HONORED..
Adam from BC. wow. No coral seller i respect more than you brother btw. Nothing but Elite.

Ok
So i make my water in a 20 brute container and now a MJ1200. I was using a chinese pump and noticed 2 weeks ago the screws were a bit rusted so i toss it. Could this have an impact? I dont know maybe, but i wont risk it. It usually let salt mix for about 4hrs before adding it. RO comes from LFS, i have done ICP and nothing shows on it other than

Silicon 35.84 µg/l

I mix at 1.025.

Cool let's look a little deeper at the actual RO/DI system. Some basic but pertinent info for sure.

How many gallons per day? Do you know your waste ratio by any chance? Also what are your tap TDS, post membrane TDS(after running a bit) and post DI TDS? Also, do you have a water softener?

Can you tell me what types of cartridges you are currently using. What micron sediment and carbon blocks and about how long you keep them in for? And lastly, are you on duty or well water, and what are your TDS tolerances, at what point would you change out your DI?

Wouldn't mind seeing a pic of the actual unit if you care to post one. And again this is really a very basic first step to cross as many obvious things that may involve your water off the list first.

Rust is always suspicious if you ask me. is there any Correlation in your timeline with the tank issues, and the rust at all? and hey thanks a lot for the kind words man, believe me I have been there too many times myself. "head scratchers" are by are the worst, but not impossible to solve.

 

[njreefkeeper]

Kind of just tossing out ideas here but maybe the tank is still lacking in biodiversity? We both started with dry rock seeded with a few pieces of live rock but maybe we are still missing some vital bacteria. I just started dosing some bacteria via ZEObak and AF Pro Bio S after reading about the success @Perry had with it.

While biodiversity can be a factor, it’s still an unknown in my opinion as to how much an impact it plays or what exactly it is we’re lacking. When we used to have access to live rock, many of us still waited a pretty darn long time before adding SPS. Not all; but I’d say the vast majority of reefers started with LPS and zoas in the tank for eight months to a year and only then added some hearty SPS. It also seemed we lost less acros back then. Now, we push the envelope much faster even though we’re using dry rock. I’m guilty of it too. Bacteria in a bottle (imho) can only take you so far before Mother Nature decides it’s time. My tank had coralline all over the glass and powerheads within 6 months. I figured “cool…let’s add a few sticks”. They got pale, suffered and I lost a few. Only now after a year are the SPS I have in my tank showing some promise; and I didn’t do a dang thing to help it along.

Having done this multiple times before, there’s just a look your rocks will show when they’re ready. There’s no more white left. Green tint has faded to grayish brown with some sponge, coralline, detritus pockets; even something else to fight like aiptasia. Fish even seem healthier as the tank reaches that point. Tangs and wrasses are picking all day long, some green algae is growing in parts of the tank the clean up crew and herbivores can’t reach, a thin green coating covers the glass panes every couple days. It’s a welcomed sight to me. Worrying about every little thing that evolves as the tank matures (and trying to immediately correct it) is in my opinion a step back…making the tank viewable and pristine in the reefers’ eyes, but not letting the ecosystem balance itself for the healthy longevity of the entire benthic system.

Many online equipment vendors propose setting your tank up, dosing some bottles of bacteria, getting your herbivores in there, and getting into that “maintenance rhythm”. I honestly don’t think that helps. My opinion, but…I’m looking to add SPS a year from setup. For the first few months I don’t use filter socks, don’t run a refugium or algae scrubber and don’t even have a skimmer running. I don’t even do a water change for months. What’s the point? I don’t want to waste money on salt and electric running things I don’t need. I don’t need my halides on for 8 hours a day. Supplemental lighting or LEDs tuned down (a lot) makes sense. In a sterile environment, my goal is to let nutrients and biodiversity build and strengthen, not immediately start stripping them out for the sake of the often trumpeted “stability”bandwagon mantra. Stability comes down the road. In the beginning you’re building a foundation of something to KEEP stable. How low do we think our alkalinity will fall if we have nothing consuming it? Research has shown that many other things are in our skimmate than fish poop…a few of which are pods, but it’s loaded with bacteria. Bacteria we need desperately in a sterile system. Having the benefit of a few tanks running helps ease the pain of looking at an ugly tank for a few months and hearing about it from family members. Having the patience to believe in prolonged gratification is one of the most valuable traits of a successful reefer; especially when keeping SPS. It’s VERY hard to ignore a new tank that you just spent thousands of dollars setting up. But I really believe it helps to do that.

One thing I’ve learned by using dry rock is that the ugly stages are coming whether I like it or not. If I reach for a bottle I’m making it ok temporarily in my eyes, but now I’ve come to accept those issues coming back to haunt me later after i think it’s all good and I’ve got very expensive frags in there. I’ve corrected something, but also thrown the natural progression of things evolving out of balance. The system will reset and correct….again.

One of the best pieces of advice I’ve ever heard given for a first year tank is “After you set up your tank, find another hobby that interests you for a year. Right now just take a magnet over the glass once a week, feed the fish every day and make sure all your equipment is working” .

Very few do this. Instagram is a powerful drug.

 

[branbray07]

Cool let's look a little deeper at the actual RO/DI system. Some basic but pertinent info for sure.

How many gallons per day? Do you know your waste ratio by any chance? Also what are your tap TDS, post membrane TDS(after running a bit) and post DI TDS? Also, do you have a water softener?

Can you tell me what types of cartridges you are currently using. What micron sediment and carbon blocks and about how long you keep them in for? And lastly, are you on duty or well water, and what are your TDS tolerances, at what point would you change out your DI?

Wouldn't mind seeing a pic of the actual unit if you care to post one. And again this is really a very basic first step to cross as many obvious things that may involve your water off the list first.

Rust is always suspicious if you ask me. is there any Correlation in your timeline with the tank issues, and the rust at all? and hey thanks a lot for the kind words man, believe me I have been there too many times myself. "head scratchers" are by are the worst, but not impossible to solve.

Hey Adam. Well i guess i could pass by the store and ask them to allow me to take a picture of it. I don't know the specifics as far as tds they are at, no filters they use but its a huge unit i know that. They do however change them frequently . They have beautiful display with and frag systems, idk i don't know if this means much. I have however used at times distilled, and even made water with it since i always have lots of it at home. As far as rust, i have not seen any in any magnets etc. However my a door hinge has a bit of it. Here is the most recent icp from my topoff using the RODI that i use.

 

[branbray07]

 

[branbray07]

While biodiversity can be a factor, it’s still an unknown in my opinion as to how much an impact it plays or what exactly it is we’re lacking. When we used to have access to live rock, many of us still waited a pretty darn long time before adding SPS. Not all; but I’d say the vast majority of reefers started with LPS and zoas in the tank for eight months to a year and only then added some hearty SPS. It also seemed we lost less acros back then. Now, we push the envelope much faster even though we’re using dry rock. I’m guilty of it too. Bacteria in a bottle (imho) can only take you so far before Mother Nature decides it’s time. My tank had coralline all over the glass and powerheads within 6 months. I figured “cool…let’s add a few sticks”. They got pale, suffered and I lost a few. Only now after a year are the SPS I have in my tank showing some promise; and I didn’t do a dang thing to help it along.

Having done this multiple times before, there’s just a look your rocks will show when they’re ready. There’s no more white left. Green tint has faded to grayish brown with some sponge, coralline, detritus pockets; even something else to fight like aiptasia. Fish even seem healthier as the tank reaches that point. Tangs and wrasses are picking all day long, some green algae is growing in parts of the tank the clean up crew and herbivores can’t reach, a thin green coating covers the glass panes every couple days. It’s a welcomed sight to me. Worrying about every little thing that evolves as the tank matures (and trying to immediately correct it) is in my opinion a step back…making the tank viewable and pristine in the reefers’ eyes, but not letting the ecosystem balance itself for the healthy longevity of the entire benthic system.

Many online equipment vendors propose setting your tank up, dosing some bottles of bacteria, getting your herbivores in there, and getting into that “maintenance rhythm”. I honestly don’t think that helps. My opinion, but…I’m looking to add SPS a year from setup. For the first few months I don’t use filter socks, don’t run a refugium or algae scrubber and don’t even have a skimmer running. I don’t even do a water change for months. What’s the point? I don’t want to waste money on salt and electric running things I don’t need. I don’t need my halides on for 8 hours a day. Supplemental lighting or LEDs tuned down (a lot) makes sense. In a sterile environment, my goal is to let nutrients and biodiversity build and strengthen, not immediately start stripping them out for the sake of the often trumpeted “stability”bandwagon mantra. Stability comes down the road. In the beginning you’re building a foundation of something to KEEP stable. How low do we think our alkalinity will fall if we have nothing consuming it? Research has shown that many other things are in our skimmate than fish poop…a few of which are pods, but it’s loaded with bacteria. Bacteria we need desperately in a sterile system. Having the benefit of a few tanks running helps ease the pain of looking at an ugly tank for a few months and hearing about it from family members. Having the patience to believe in prolonged gratification is one of the most valuable traits of a successful reefer; especially when keeping SPS. It’s VERY hard to ignore a new tank that you just spent thousands of dollars setting up. But I really believe it helps to do that.

One thing I’ve learned by using dry rock is that the ugly stages are coming whether I like it or not. If I reach for a bottle I’m making it ok temporarily in my eyes, but now I’ve come to accept those issues coming back to haunt me later after i think it’s all good and I’ve got very expensive frags in there. I’ve corrected something, but also thrown the natural progression of things evolving out of balance. The system will reset and correct….again.

One of the best pieces of advice I’ve ever heard given for a first year tank is “After you set up your tank, find another hobby that interests you for a year. Right now just take a magnet over the glass once a week, feed the fish every day and make sure all your equipment is working” .

Very few do this. Instagram is a powerful drug.

Yea for sure nothing replaces mother nature

 

[Robs Reef]

Reading a few post on here regarding dry rock is a bit misleading. I used dry rock in my 600g system and no problems as long as you do a long cycle and have lots of patience. I cycled for about 4 month until i placed my sps in the tank, and in 3.5 years it went from frags to colonies. My tank is now 4 years old and beyond full blown. I believe in simplicity and not over complicate things.

 

[Battlecorals]

Hey Adam. Well i guess i could pass by the store and ask them to allow me to take a picture of it. I don't know the specifics as far as tds they are at, no filters they use but its a huge unit i know that. They do however change them frequently . They have beautiful display with and frag systems, idk i don't know if this means much. I have however used at times distilled, and even made water with it since i always have lots of it at home. As far as rust, i have not seen any in any magnets etc. However my a door hinge has a bit of it. Here is the most recent icp from my topoff using the RODI that i use.

Ohh ohh I see. I definitely missed this detail. You are actually buying water from you LFS then. Got it. Honestly, this is pretty big red flag for me. Not saying you Lfs is selling you garbage water but, I do think you would end up with better product in the long run with a unit of your own.

If you weren't having any issues, obviously it would be a non starter. But since you are, with no other clear smoking gun as the culprit, this is something I'd very much like to address.

Not sure of your living situation or if this is feasible at all for you, but is an RO unit something you could justify getting, and be able to set up somewhere in your house permanently?

 

[branbray07]

Ohh ohh I see. I definitely missed this detail. You are actually buying water from you LFS then. Got it. Honestly, this is pretty big red flag for me. Not saying you Lfs is selling you garbage water but, I do think you would end up with better product in the long run with a unit of your own.

If you weren't having any issues, obviously it would be a non starter. But since you are, with no other clear smoking gun as the culprit, this is something I'd very much like to address.

Not sure of your living situation or if this is feasible at all for you, but is an RO unit something you could justify getting, and be able to set up somewhere in your house permanently?

I can install one in my garage, unfortunately its being occupied right now with all of our extra stuff. Literally packed to the brim. Waiting on ou new shed to come in. Would using distilled water for the time being help? Also my topoff container does not have a lid and it’s currently under the tank. Could this be an issue ? Also here is the only rust i found anywhere.

 

[Perry]

Here are some pics of my previous tank . Gorgeous in wall i built, but lost it in my divorce. Such is life..

Jorge, I Totally remember this tank, that was such a cool build!!!

 

[njreefkeeper]

I can install one in my garage, unfortunately it’s being occupied right now with all of our extra stuff. Literally packed to the brim. Waiting on ou new shed to come in. Would using distilled water for the time being help? Also my topoff container does not have a lid and it’s currently under the tank. Could this be an issue ? Also here is the only rust i found anywhere.

Gotta agree with Adam on this one. Water is the main ingredient in everything we keep. Being a stickler for your source water is a must. Don’t trust it to anyone but yourself.

 

[branbray07]

Jorge, I Totally remember this tank, that was such a cool build!!!

Yeaaa how i miss it!!

 

[Battlecorals]

Gotta agree with Adam on this one. Water is the main ingredient in everything we keep. Being a stickler for your source water is a must. Don’t trust it to anyone but yourself.

yeah I mean in this case its a huge wildcard, and like I said, if there were no issues present there would be no cause for concern with the water. But for me, in blind trouble shooting cases like this one, I always start with water and work my way outward. For some reason, source water problems are often overlooked.

In this case, the water is very suspect and the first thing I'd address before making any drastic parameter or system changes. You'd be surprised how many folks I have helped over years by simply addressing source water, or relatively easy ro/di quirks that need to be looked at. not always the magic bullet, but often.

 

[branbray07]

yeah I mean in this case its a huge wildcard, and like I said, if there were no issues present there would be no cause for concern with the water. But for me, in blind trouble shooting cases like this one, I always start with water and work my way outward. For some reason, source water problems are often overlooked.

In this case, the water is very suspect and the first thing I'd address before making any drastic parameter or system changes. You'd be surprised how many folks I have helped over years by simply addressing source water, or relatively easy ro/di quirks that need to be looked at. not always the magic bullet, but often.

Awesome Adam . I will purchase one then. However with my garage situation I mentioned, would store bought distilled be a better option for the time being?

 

[Battlecorals]

Awesome Adam . I will purchase one then. However with my garage situation I mentioned, would store bought distilled be a better option for the time being?

Man I honestly don't know. But I will absolutely help you get the new RO unit set up and optimized as soon as you are able. I promise. please feel free to email me if you have any further specific questions on getting the actual unit. I know that can be a little confusing as well.

 

[njreefkeeper]

yeah I mean in this case its a huge wildcard, and like I said, if there were no issues present there would be no cause for concern with the water. But for me, in blind trouble shooting cases like this one, I always start with water and work my way outward. For some reason, source water problems are often overlooked.

In this case, the water is very suspect and the first thing I'd address before making any drastic parameter or system changes. You'd be surprised how many folks I have helped over years by simply addressing source water, or relatively easy ro/di quirks that need to be looked at. not always the magic bullet, but often.

I couldn’t agree more. Once you’ve ruled out the visibly tangible components (light, flow, stable “basic” parameters) then it’s time to inspect for pests. If that isn’t the issue water is my next guess. I know a couple people that keep lps and soft coral tanks around me using tap water in their tanks. They try an SPS frag and it just slowly declines.

Good call Adam. Great advice.

 

[branbray07]

Man I honestly don't know. But I will absolutely help you get the new RO unit set up and optimized as soon as you are able. I promise. please feel free to email me if you have any further specific questions on getting the actual unit. I know that can be a little confusing as well.

Thanks Adam. Once again like i said.. ELITE..

 

[odariel]

In the meantime lower those phosphates a bit... and see if it makes a difference i honestly think it will

 

[branbray07]

@Battlecorals . Hey Adam. Just wanted to know, that i just my RODI. I will be installing it tomorrow or saturday. As far as nutrients , Po4 is down to .05 and Na3 still at 15

 

[South Carolina reef]

I have tried both Alk in the higher end 9ish with nutrientes this high and lights ramped up to match , and lower end with nutrients lower. Same results. Burned tips, STN ETC. I started to raise nutrients because as you see , corals seem starving. I usually run WWC at 70% with 6 hrs of t5s. I decided to lower intensity to see if it would aid with the stresses out corals. Lights at 10in above water, and its only a 15in deep tank. FLOW is very very violent and random. I dont get sand blown as much, since i use Tropic Eden Mesosflakes , so they dont get blown as much. I made the switch 5 months ago from Special grade that would get blown everywhere.

Try getting PH up. 8.3 increase flow a lot rent a PAR meter.