Starting Tropic Marin All-For-Reef without adjust calcium and alkalinity first?

Soilworker · Aug 9, 2022

So I'm looking to start using Tropic Marin's All-For-Reef and in the instructions they say:

Before starting use of Tropic Marin All-for-Reef as a supplement for your aquarium, it is recommended to adjust your calcium and alkalinity to your desired values. We recommend using Tropic Marin's Original Balling - Part A (calcium chloride) for calcium and Tropic Marin's Original Balling - Part B (sodium bi-carbonate) for the alkalinity.

Now the question is this: Do I need to adjust my calcium and alkalinity values first or can I do that with All-For-Reef? I don't have any two part solutions yet and would be easier if I could just use All-For-Reef to get my values where I need them.

For reference my Alkalinity is at 7.4 and I'd like to get to 9-9.5. I haven't measured my calcium yet but I don't really have many corals yet. Part of the motivation of upping my alkalinity is to get my pH up a bit from 7.8 to 8.2-8.4.

Soilworker · Aug 9, 2022

@Randy Holmes-Farley ?

naterealbig · Aug 10, 2022

I've done this with A4R.

Might just start with 1/2 the recommended dose - then test and adjust from there.

I have found that A4R in my setups has about a 24 hr delay between dosing and it registering on my Hanna Checker (when increasing my levels).

ChiCity · Aug 10, 2022

i just stopped using afr…
chasing mg became so tiring.

gbroadbridge · Aug 10, 2022

Soilworker said:
So I'm looking to start using Tropic Marin's All-For-Reef and in the instructions they say:

Now the question is this: Do I need to adjust my calcium and alkalinity values first or can I do that with All-For-Reef? I don't have any two part solutions yet and would be easier if I could just use All-For-Reef to get my values where I need them.

For reference my Alkalinity is at 7.4 and I'd like to get to 9-9.5. I haven't measured my calcium yet but I don't really have many corals yet. Part of the motivation of upping my alkalinity is to get my pH up a bit from 7.8 to 8.2-8.4.

You don't have to adjust first - but why not?

Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Calcium Chloride are dirt cheap.
Why waste an expensive product to do simple adjustments.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 10, 2022

It’s pretty hard to answer without knowing the calcium value, but it is likely ok to start and adjust if needed once you get a kit.

HBtank · Aug 10, 2022

ChiCity said:
i just stopped using afr…
chasing mg became so tiring.

Interesting, it did not supplement enough?

ChiCity · Aug 10, 2022

yeah. i was constantly chasing mg
(their salt also took more than a 1/2 cup per gallon!)

Lou Ekus · Aug 11, 2022

Soilworker said:
So I'm looking to start using Tropic Marin's All-For-Reef and in the instructions they say:

Now the question is this: Do I need to adjust my calcium and alkalinity values first or can I do that with All-For-Reef? I don't have any two part solutions yet and would be easier if I could just use All-For-Reef to get my values where I need them.

For reference my Alkalinity is at 7.4 and I'd like to get to 9-9.5. I haven't measured my calcium yet but I don't really have many corals yet. Part of the motivation of upping my alkalinity is to get my pH up a bit from 7.8 to 8.2-8.4.

The reason we suggest to adjust your values before starting AFR is that the ratio of Ca, alkalinity and Mg in the AFR is fixed, as it is a ingle solution. So there is no way to add more of one without adding more of the others. If your existing ratios are out of whack, then trying to adjust one without influencing the others will be unsuccessful. Without knowing your Ca concentration, there is no way to know of this approach will be successful for you moving forward. If your calcium, alkalinity and Mg are all low, in about the same ratio, then this will work fine.

Lou Ekus · Aug 11, 2022

ChiCity said:
i just stopped using afr…
chasing mg became so tiring.

Mg requirements can vary significantly from system to system. Even within the same system, the Mg requirement can vary greatly from time to time. So there is no way to put the proper amount of supplemental Mg in a prefixed ratio single solution. If you have a system, that is using lots of Mg, then you will always require some additional Mg supplementation.

Shooter6 · Aug 11, 2022

My experience is probably longer then most with afr here. Excluding Lou, possibly.

I've been importing the afr powder since it was first released in Germany. ( still trying to source the 33.5 pound barrels states side by the way Lou!!

So adjusting your alk ,cal,mag is very doable using afr. There's a few things to consider though as others mentioned.
1st its a single dose chemical mix, therefore when you are dosing all three will increase at the same time. This can be fine or can cause issues. Water changes may be your best bet to verify your 3 are in the proper ratios to begin with.
Second afr takes time from the dosing to be fully released and measurable. 24hrs seems to be the average.
Mag does seem to need to be adjusted occasionally with additional mag dosing for most people.

Lou Ekus · Aug 12, 2022

Shooter6 said:
My experience is probably longer then most with afr here. Excluding Lou, possibly.

I've been importing the afr powder since it was first released in Germany. ( still trying to source the 33.5 pound barrels states side by the way Lou!!

So adjusting your alk ,cal,mag is very doable using afr. There's a few things to consider though as others mentioned.
1st its a single dose chemical mix, therefore when you are dosing all three will increase at the same time. This can be fine or can cause issues. Water changes may be your best bet to verify your 3 are in the proper ratios to begin with.
Second afr takes time from the dosing to be fully released and measurable. 24hrs seems to be the average.
Mag does seem to need to be adjusted occasionally with additional mag dosing for most people.

You should be able to "special order" the 5 gallon bucket of AFR from any of our Tropic Marin Preferred Dealers near you. Here is a link to the store locator:

Preferred Dealers

Many stores throughout the US carry Tropic Marin products, but our Preferred Dealers carry a larger selection of our line and are also using Tropic Marin in their store systems. Some of the...

www.tropicmarin-usa.com

It will take a few months to get it in. But it should not be a problem to do that. If you run into trouble, please just email me directly, and include the LFS you are working with, and I will help facilitate the special order with them. My email, if you don't already have it, is [email protected]

I hope this is helpful.

Shooter6 · Aug 12, 2022

Lou Ekus said:
You should be able to "special order" the 5 gallon bucket of AFR from any of our Tropic Marin Preferred Dealers near you. Here is a link to the store locator:

Preferred Dealers

Many stores throughout the US carry Tropic Marin products, but our Preferred Dealers carry a larger selection of our line and are also using Tropic Marin in their store systems. Some of the...

www.tropicmarin-usa.com

It will take a few months to get it in. But it should not be a problem to do that. If you run into trouble, please just email me directly, and include the LFS you are working with, and I will help facilitate the special order with them. My email, if you don't already have it, is [email protected]

I hope this is helpful.

Awesome I definitely will do that. I go through the 10lt making container a month now so the 5gal bucket should last around 4 months

ilikefish69 · Oct 5, 2022

Lou Ekus said:
You should be able to "special order" the 5 gallon bucket of AFR from any of our Tropic Marin Preferred Dealers near you. Here is a link to the store locator:

Preferred Dealers

Many stores throughout the US carry Tropic Marin products, but our Preferred Dealers carry a larger selection of our line and are also using Tropic Marin in their store systems. Some of the...

www.tropicmarin-usa.com

It will take a few months to get it in. But it should not be a problem to do that. If you run into trouble, please just email me directly, and include the LFS you are working with, and I will help facilitate the special order with them. My email, if you don't already have it, is [email protected]

I hope this is helpful.

Lou, you are the man.

joeyhatch11 · Feb 9, 2024

My experience with AFR is that its raises my alk and does nothing for my calcium. Adjustd my levels to 8.4alk and 440cal. Dosing 20ml a day on a 70ish gallon mixed reef with more sticks than anything else and my alk would raise to 8.8-9.1 where calcium would drop to 380-400. Always having to add additional calcium, which Ive gotten use to.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 9, 2024

Soilworker said:
So I'm looking to start using Tropic Marin's All-For-Reef and in the instructions they say:

Now the question is this: Do I need to adjust my calcium and alkalinity values first or can I do that with All-For-Reef? I don't have any two part solutions yet and would be easier if I could just use All-For-Reef to get my values where I need them.

For reference my Alkalinity is at 7.4 and I'd like to get to 9-9.5. I haven't measured my calcium yet but I don't really have many corals yet. Part of the motivation of upping my alkalinity is to get my pH up a bit from 7.8 to 8.2-8.4.

You can start now and raise the dose slowly as you monitor alk

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 9, 2024

joeyhatch11 said:
My experience with AFR is that its raises my alk and does nothing for my calcium. Adjustd my levels to 8.4alk and 440cal. Dosing 20ml a day on a 70ish gallon mixed reef with more sticks than anything else and my alk would raise to 8.8-9.1 where calcium would drop to 380-400. Always having to add additional calcium, which Ive gotten use to.

AFR is actually a little tiny bit heavy on calcium relative to alk, so that effect may just be the issues with calcium testing.