Stay away from prazi pro

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Wildreefs

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Rather than respond to each reply, who are generally the same I’ll comment here in the direction of all of them.

It’s conflicting. I read posts here and about where hobbyist have treated dozens, hundreds etc with no ill effect. I see what it does myself. I see what vendors have said to me regarding it. For example, last I spoke with Tsm they will only use powder , not the liquid prazi pro.
For same reasons. There are three others, who happen to be sponsors, and I’m not here to drive any attention to them.

in fact, there’s more than that, again, if I mention them, it can only do harm to them and I don’t want to be in that position.

I’ve heard from one of them that actually drip dispenses prazi into tanks.
This way dose is spread out thru out the day. My issue with that is, we know prazi isn’t in solution very long, so by the time time the later half of the dose goes in, the first half of the product could be weakening. It’s not like copper Thats cumulative . In fact, I remember humble stating the bacteria in tank quickly act on it , so the concentration may never hit 2.5 mg/l. Perhaps that’s why that method works as in doesn’t Killy fish, but who knows if it’s every potent enough to kill flukes.

to say it’s operating error is silly. I measured with 5 gallon buckets how much water the system holds, divide that by 20 gallons, times 5 ml of prazi. Much harder things to mess up.

as far as oxygen goes, air line in each tank, skimmer with cup off, and turning each tank over 5-6 turns with return water crashing surface. Also 76 degree tank , on cooler end, to keep more 02 in water.

I’ve been qting fish since 2013. Didn’t attribute any losses to prazipro until last 2-3 years. So I went 5-6 years no issues.
Something changed. I dose all at once in sump. I can count to 30 and then watch wrasses shoot to bottom and start rapidly breathing. Some get up, some don’t .

and before I post, just hit me of another high end vendor who told me point blank they won’t touch that stuff anymore, and will use panache or general cure . A vendor who only deals
With higher end angels and wrasses, I have a bought a few fish from shipped, and when I asked about prazi they said good luck, it’s playing Russian roulette.

again, these guys make a living selling fish, I’m not gonna air them out and have people believe they don’t treat at all because they won’t use prazi pro etc .
 

Jay Hemdal

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Has anybody actually tested whether PraziPro actually lowers dissolved oxygen levels?
Yes - I have. Prazipro doesn't lower DO by itself, but the heterotrophic bacteria bloom that occurs after some treatments does take up oxygen. In aquariums with either a good skimmer (running with no cup of course) or a simple air stone, you won't see any issues. In aquariums with just water circulation, in which the surface tension isn't being broken, that's where you can see the issue....that is a common practice for reefers intent on limiting salt creep.
Praziquantel as a dry powder, expressed through a fine net and mixed into the tank does NOT cause low DO. It is always the solvent (a glycol in the case of Prazipro, or ethanol that some public aquariums use) that causes the bacterial bloom.

Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

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There are two ways that Prazipro can kill fish acutely: oxygen deprivation and "fluke bleed out". The solvent used in Prazipro is a glycol. It makes up 95% of the product. When you add it to the tank, bacteria populations bloom to consume it. In doing so, they strip oxygen from the water and produce CO2. This can kill fish unless there is really good aeration (not just circulation, you must break the water's surface tension). Typically though, this issue is seen 12 to 36 hours after dosing. The second issue, "fluke bleed out" can occur faster. Basically, the praziquantel works too well on fish that have a heavy gill fluke infestation. As each tiny fluke is knocked off the fish, a little hole in the gill is left. The fish bleeds out from all of these holes. This can kill fish within hours of dosing. One clue is to look at the gills - if they are pink or white, the fish was anemic.

I've never had any issues with Prazipro, I've only seen one negative reaction to praziquantel in 40 years of use - I lost a tarpon for no reason at 4mg/l (double dose).

Jay

So - over the last week, I've dosed a number of our systems with Prazipro as part of our quarantine process; Japanese snipefish, darters (Fenbendazole is toxic to these), mullet and blennies. To be sure, this message thread had me watching them VERY closely. No water cloudiness and no losses of fish from these systems for any reason. The marine fish had all gone through hyposalinity first, and the darters were newly collected so the Prazipro wasn't being dosed on fish that actually had flukes, this was more of just a safety net. I still think that what folks are seeing is "fluke bleed out".


Jay

p.s. - my only complaint is that it is difficult to get the Prazipro residue out of my lab glassware (grin).
 
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So - over the last week, I've dosed a number of our systems with Prazipro as part of our quarantine process; Japanese snipefish, darters (Fenbendazole is toxic to these), mullet and blennies. To be sure, this message thread had me watching them VERY closely. No water cloudiness and no losses of fish from these systems for any reason. The marine fish had all gone through hyposalinity first, and the darters were newly collected so the Prazipro wasn't being dosed on fish that actually had flukes, this was more of just a safety net. I still think that what folks are seeing is "fluke bleed out".


Jay

p.s. - my only complaint is that it is difficult to get the Prazipro residue out of my lab glassware (grin).

jay-

I have read your material over the years and never doubt your ability or knowledge.

I can not explain why I have been having difficulty. Fish that had been med free in my possession 2-3 weeks, suddenly labored and if not dead within 8 hours of
Dose. Water within hours has a “fog” like appearance.
 
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second dose of prazi pro, 1 week after first dose and 24 hours later 3 dead. Fish I’ve had with me 4 weeks, and were at local store 2 weeks.

again, just putting it out there so other people can see a side of things.

took the gallon I had left and recycled it at Local recycling center. That’s about 450 in dead fish this past week. Torture is over will never touch the stuff again
 

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I will say this: a HOB filter on a 20 gallon QT tank is not enough water flow. A QT setup needs powerheads to keep water very lively. Add in the bacteria bloom/oxygen issues you get with prazi, and you have a disaster. It has happened to me. Flow, flow, flow. That is one of the 2 keys to successful QT. The other is ammonia export/avoidance. In my experience.
 

Jay Hemdal

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I will say this: a HOB filter on a 20 gallon QT tank is not enough water flow. A QT setup needs powerheads to keep water very lively. Add in the bacteria bloom/oxygen issues you get with prazi, and you have a disaster. It has happened to me. Flow, flow, flow. That is one of the 2 keys to successful QT. The other is ammonia export/avoidance. In my experience.
Aeration works even better than flow - breaking the surface tension drives off carbon dioxide produced by the bacteria. I’ve just seen tanks with lots of flow, but where people actively avoided breaking the surface tension with their power heads (to avoid salt spray), but they still had CO2 issues. Bubbles!
Jay
 

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Aeration works even better than flow - breaking the surface tension drives off carbon dioxide produced by the bacteria. I’ve just seen tanks with lots of flow, but where people actively avoided breaking the surface tension with their power heads (to avoid salt spray), but they still had CO2 issues. Bubbles!
Jay
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For anyone looking into prazi pro, my suggestion is to run away from it until your lungs give out, then crawl a little further.

Over the years, I have read tons of post about how prazi is the safest med in the market, easiest to use etc.

while using it, I consistently would kill 5-6 fish within hours of dosing. believing it was a necessary evil, the last straw came this week.

this week alone I killed the following within 6 hours of dosing prazi, 5 ml per 20 gallon. All these fish I’ve had in my possession for at least 3 weeks , if not more, and they died in less than 6 hours after dose:

bellus angel
Blue throat fairy wrasse
White face butterfly
Arabian butterfly
Blonde Naso
Masked swallowtail angel

You heard that right, administering prazi pro as a prophylactic measure in qt, I killed 6 fish alone this week who were otherwise healthy at the time of dose.

which begs the question, and I am starting to believe this, I’ve killed more fish in “qt” versus going right in. Not the most popular thing to say, and I’m not sure there is a good way because I know velvet can wipe out fish fast, but I myself have killed more by trying to treat than not treating.

oh ad fwiw, having talked to 3-4 vendors who qt fish, they all have presentations about prazi, and I know of two who simply won’t use it.
Worked for me in DT when my Regal Tang had black ick/flatworms. Obviously wrasses react poorly to it. Have to heavily aerate the water.
 
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