Still battling the GHA .. and dosing with Vibrant

[ebeez]

Here's another update on the battle.. looking better now.. still a little more to go!

 

[Hermie]

The problem IMO with the fuge is, that it not only pulls the nutrients and trace elements needed for algae, but also the ones that would help to build a healthy bacteria population and diversity in the tank (we’re talking about early tank stage). For example if most of the algae is sucking up ammonia, then you’ll never really have the ammonia->nitrite bacteria and nitrite->nitrate bacteria. Maybe the whole nitrogen cycle then is relied on algae, either nussiance or macro (cheato and stuff). I think reintroducing a fuge later on can be beneficial, but probably not at this point. My tank is 3 years old and have been running a fuge from day 1. I never really was able to get rid of nussiance algae, so as a last resort I’ve pulled the fuge, dosed vibrant and flucanozole (to give the bacteria a head start), and basicly try to cycle the tank “properly” for the first time. What I see after 2 months is that almost all of the GHA is gone, skimmate looks “better”, and the SPS are coloring up. I believe that for vibrant and flucanozole to be effective it’s needed to pull the fuge, so it can deal with the problematic algae instead of the beneficial one. I might be on a wrong track though, it’s just that I’m desperate after 3 years of doing “fashionable” things

I'm about to dose fluconazole this week (in the mail), as I am fighting green/red turf algae. I agree that a refugium could be a source of "problems" as well as a solution, in that it has to be well maintained which is something I'm lax to do. I watched the 40B Knasty rreview of Vibrant and I don't think it will help me with the algae I have (turf, thick and short). So I am doing fluconazole now. After manually trimming.

 

[Scdell]

I'm about to dose fluconazole this week (in the mail), as I am fighting green/red turf algae. I agree that a refugium could be a source of "problems" as well as a solution, in that it has to be well maintained which is something I'm lax to do. I watched the 40B Knasty rreview of Vibrant and I don't think it will help me with the algae I have (turf, thick and short). So I am doing fluconazole now. After manually trimming.

Flucanazole works. But it's a temporary fix. I used it for GHA. Yeah it got rid of it. But it messed with my SPS also. Months later I had GHA again. This time I used Vibrant. It took longer. It slowly eradicated the GHA. Well see, but I feel more assured that it's gone for good now. I'd rather a slow fix than a quick fix.

 

[Hermie]

Flucanazole works. But it's a temporary fix. I used it for GHA. Yeah it got rid of it. But it messed with my SPS also. Months later I had GHA again. This time I used Vibrant. It took longer. It slowly eradicated the GHA. Well see, but I feel more assured that it's gone for good now. I'd rather a slow fix than a quick fix.

Was it "green hair" or was it like "turf" where it's very very thick but short, and eventually the base of the algae turns gray because it's blocked from receiving light?

The issue is that I have urchins who do a great job cleaning the rock but the ardently avoid the turf algae. They go right past it. So I need something to knock it back and give the urchins a chance to graze over where it was (and prevent new algae).

 

[Quantum USA]

One thing i would look into is where is the source of the nutrients coming from? Was this rock cured previously to being added to the tank? Was this dry rock? GHA's number one source of food is the phosphate that actually bound up in the rock. Not much of the phosphate that is in the water column is a source of food for GHA. I would look into possibly using a phosphate remover that would break up the bound phosphate that is bound up with the calcium in the rock. This form of phosphate is called calcium di-phosphate. There are only a few removers out there that are strong enough to go in and break up that bind.

I had a 180 gallon tank that was a friend of mine who had hair algae so bad you couldn't even see his corals. We did a 30% water change, while performing this water change we picked the algae at the same time as siphoning it out to waste. Then we dosed the Tank with Quantum's Phosphate remover. Took a little over 3 weeks and the GHA was gone. This tank has still been GHA free and we are at 11months after the outbreak. We performed a water change weekly while picking out GHA till it was gone.

This is just my experience with a friend of mines tank.

 

[Scdell]

Was it "green hair" or was it like "turf" where it's very very thick but short, and eventually the base of the algae turns gray because it's blocked from receiving light?

The issue is that I have urchins who do a great job cleaning the rock but the ardently avoid the turf algae. They go right past it. So I need something to knock it back and give the urchins a chance to graze over where it was (and prevent new algae).

Green hair. It was thick and taking over. All I know is I used both. Flucanazole and Vibrant. Flucanazole will mess up your whole system. It takes weeks or months to get things back to normal.
It's a quick fix. That never goes well.

 

[Hermie]

Green hair. It was thick and taking over. All I know is I used both. Flucanazole and Vibrant. Flucanazole will mess up your whole system. It takes weeks or months to get things back to normal.
It's a quick fix. That never goes well.

I mean specifically what happens that's a bad effect?

 

[Scdell]

I mean specifically what happens that's a bad effect?

Nothing really specific. It just puts a lot of stress on everything in the tank.
It's good for Bryopsis because it works fast on that.
GHA can take over two weeks or more for it to work. Sometimes it takes another dose.
I lost some Sps and the rest were pretty stressed.

 

[zalick]

Nothing really specific. It just puts a lot of stress on everything in the tank.
It's good for Bryopsis because it works fast on that.
GHA can take over two weeks or more for it to work. Sometimes it takes another dose.
I lost some Sps and the rest were pretty stressed.

Sorry it seems to have effected your SPS. The vast majority of people who use it report no effect on coral or animals. It's a common medication in the veterinary world. It interupts the conversion of lanosterol to ergosterol. This is the theory on how it effects certain algaes and nothing else.

I keep going back and forth between vibrant or fluconazole. Everytime I think I've made a decision, I read a post of someone who had bad effects on their tank! I was about to start fluconazole before reading your post.

 

[LC8Sumi]

I think it's not the medicine itself that is directly the problem. More like the stress of the tank caused by the shift in microfauna/bacteria population as the algae dies off and other species start to step in their place. This upsets the whole nutrient / trace uptake balance of the tank and might result in the stressing of corals. IMO.

 

[Scdell]

Sorry it seems to have effected your SPS. The vast majority of people who use it report no effect on coral or animals. It's a common medication in the veterinary world. It interupts the conversion of lanosterol to ergosterol. This is the theory on how it effects certain algaes and nothing else.

I keep going back and forth between vibrant or fluconazole. Everytime I think I've made a decision, I read a post of someone who had bad effects on their tank! I was about to start fluconazole before reading your post.

Check into it. I've seen a lot of posts about bad effects from Flcanazole.
It's the amount of time you need to keep it in the tank. Two weeks or more.
It'll work on Bryopsis within days. You won't see it effect GHA for at least a week and a half.Then it's another week or so to really work. I only lost small frags. Colonies were stressed, but no loss. It did take them a bit to recover.

 

[Scdell]

I think it's not the medicine itself that is directly the problem. More like the stress of the tank caused by the shift in microfauna/bacteria population as the algae dies off and other species start to step in their place. This upsets the whole nutrient / trace uptake balance of the tank and might result in the stressing of corals. IMO.

This is most likely right. Your changing how the tank works.

 

[Gareth elliott]

How much vibrant are you dosing, at what interval and for how long?

I am only seeing omnivore fish species, have you thought about adding a herbivore a 525xl have a few more choices than smaller tanks. A small yellow tang, might help with control.

Now why you are getting it. If you sand or rocks have bound phosphate it is being released in amounts to keep the algae growing.

Your manual removal jobs are the right direction, each time you remove algae you are removing the nutrients inside it from ever entering the water column. To make this a little more effective each time you clean attach a 5 micron filter sock so anything you miss is collected as well. Do not leave this on for more than an hour will clog quickly.
Ime slow and steady algae treatments are far less stressful on the tank. Another reason you maybe having sps issues is the algae is far better at phosphate extraction than corals. Starving your corals. https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/9/chemistry Article from randy on phosphate:

In regards to vibrant you can get negative effects if you overdose or dose at too small of intervals. But will wait for your reply on that .

 

[chris k.]

GHA will go away eventually. Everything needs to run its course. Vibrant will work. It's just going to take some time. I used it. I dosed twice a week for weeks. About a whole bottle. A!ong with scrubbing the rocks and removing as much as you can. Quit looking for a quick fix.

This is great advice. I had an outbreak of gha but my cause was i did not realize my clean up crew was gone. I bought some turbo snails and some crabs. And water changes where i suck out as much gha as possible. Tanks have been sparkling clean since.

 

[Scdell]

This is great advice. I had an outbreak of gha but my cause was i did not realize my clean up crew was gone. I bought some turbo snails and some crabs. And water changes where i suck out as much gha as possible. Tanks have been sparkling clean since.

This is a good point. I find I have to keep replenishing my snail population.

 

[Hermie]

My problem is that no clean up crew will touch the turf algae.

 

[Scdell]

My problem is that no clean up crew will touch the turf algae.

Maybe not when it has taken over. It'll help when it's small and not overgrown.

 

[Hermie]

Maybe not when it has taken over. It'll help when it's small and not overgrown.

Yeah I don't know man, I trim it down and the urchins, snail and hermits continue to stay away. I think this stuff has evolved to be distasteful.

 

[ebeez]

How much vibrant are you dosing, at what interval and for how long?

I am only seeing omnivore fish species, have you thought about adding a herbivore a 525xl have a few more choices than smaller tanks. A small yellow tang, might help with control.

Now why you are getting it. If you sand or rocks have bound phosphate it is being released in amounts to keep the algae growing.

Your manual removal jobs are the right direction, each time you remove algae you are removing the nutrients inside it from ever entering the water column. To make this a little more effective each time you clean attach a 5 micron filter sock so anything you miss is collected as well. Do not leave this on for more than an hour will clog quickly.
Ime slow and steady algae treatments are far less stressful on the tank. Another reason you maybe having sps issues is the algae is far better at phosphate extraction than corals. Starving your corals. https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/9/chemistry Article from randy on phosphate:

In regards to vibrant you can get negative effects if you overdose or dose at too small of intervals. But will wait for your reply on that .

Hi Gareth, I am dosing 10 ml twice a week, scraping the GHA (almost gone now) and removing the clumps of sand bed that have evidence of growth. 20% water change once a week. It's a slow but steady pace as I didn't want to shock the residents of the tank. I was contemplating a yellow tang ... but resorting to adding some trochus snails to help clean up.

 

[ebeez]

Another quick update if it helps anyone. Added some Trochus snails as part of my CUC....