Stocking for 40 Gallon Macro Algae Frag Tank? Valentini Puffer???

[reddevilant]

So over the holidays I started a 40 gallon tank (breeder 36in x 16in x 18in) to act as a frag/grow out tank for interesting macro algae that I plan to sell. I already explained in my build thread but the tank is already cycled because I moved over some bio-media and sponges that have been established for a year from my 90 gallon display. I also ghost fed and tested for a few days to be sure and it is definitely cycled.

I want to have a constant, natural source of nutrients for the macros so rather than dosing constantly. Plus it's more cost effective because I won't have to buy dosing stuff as often. I was thinking a small puffer like a Valentini. I figure since puffers can be messy eaters it'll just be more nutrients for the macros. However, some places like LiveAquaria list them as omnivores while others like saltwaterfish.com list them as just carnivores. Obviously, I can't have anything that will eat the algae because that will most definitely NOT be cost effective lol. Also, I don't know if they can be aggressive/nippy and since I'll constantly have my hands in there that might be an issue.

Any advice or info on small puffers or other stocking suggestions are very much welcomed! Thanks!!

 

[Unitylover]

So over the holidays I started a 40 gallon tank (breeder 36in x 16in x 18in) to act as a frag/grow out tank for interesting macro algae that I plan to sell. I already explained in my build thread but the tank is already cycled because I moved over some bio-media and sponges that have been established for a year from my 90 gallon display. I also ghost fed and tested for a few days to be sure and it is definitely cycled.

I want to have a constant, natural source of nutrients for the macros so rather than dosing constantly. Plus it's more cost effective because I won't have to buy dosing stuff as often. I was thinking a small puffer like a Valentini. I figure since puffers can be messy eaters it'll just be more nutrients for the macros. However, some places like LiveAquaria list them as omnivores while others like saltwaterfish.com list them as just carnivores. Obviously, I can't have anything that will eat the algae because that will most definitely NOT be cost effective lol. Also, I don't know if they can be aggressive/nippy and since I'll constantly have my hands in there that might be an issue.

Any advice or info on small puffers or other stocking suggestions are very much welcomed!

You are VERY limited as there is no hiding spots, no areas for them to hide

 

[reddevilant]

You are VERY limited as there is no hiding spots, no areas for them to hide

Yeah, I figured that might be another issue. It shouldn't be as bad once the macros really start to grow and I'll probably be adding more eggcrate to the front, vertical sides of the rack which might help a little. I didn't think puffers were much of hiders.

Do you think I'd be better off with an active swimmer like a cardinal or a chromi? I was also considering moving one of my Seale's Cardinalfish in there because the two I have are getting quite big and are getting a little aggressive towards each other the past week or to in my 90 gal.

 

[Unitylover]

Yeah, I figured that might be another issue. It shouldn't be as bad once the macros really start to grow and I'll probably be adding more eggcrate to the front, vertical sides of the rack which might help a little. I didn't think puffers were much of hiders.

Do you think I'd be better off with an active swimmer like a cardinal or a chromi? I was also considering moving one of my Seale's Cardinalfish in there because the two I have are getting quite big and are getting a little aggressive towards each other the past week or to in my 90 gal.

maybe, once you move more egg crate to create hiding places, you should be able to do that.

 

[Unitylover]

also are you selling coral?
i might buy some.




(in the future, that is, once you get zoas and things)

 

[reddevilant]

maybe, once you move more egg crate to create hiding places, you should be able to do that.

Sounds good thanks!

also are you selling coral?

Nope, no corals. I don't even have any in my other tank. Just macro algae and maybe some interesting sponges in the future.

 

[Unitylover]

Sounds good thanks!

Nope, no corals. I don't even have any in my other tank. Just macro algae and maybe some interesting sponges in the future.

cool, i might buy sponges from you as you live closeby!

 

[reddevilant]

cool, i might buy sponges from you as you live closeby!

Oh cool! I don't have any yet but I've had my eye on some plating sponges that LiveAquaria has. Just waiting for it to be a little warmer before I order anything.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

From experience with small macro tank up to my 7' macro tank I have now.

Stocking a macro tank with enough fish to feed the macros and have them grow quickly is a hard feat. Usually will take larger fish and most of those fish eat macro.

My suggestion would be to stock a few small fish, throw in some pipe for hiding spots until the macro grows out and then dose ammonia to the tank.

I use Austins ammonia in my macro growout tank. I also have fish in there and have no issues with dosing ammonia. I do not dose it to anywhere near even an alert level on a seachem badge, and have never had any losses. It just needs to be dripped in slowly and only a few drops a day. This provides enough ammonia for the macro to consume, but not enough to hurt the fish.

@Subsea also has dosed ammonia directly in the past, and I believe only lost a molly once, as it was right at the place where it was dosed when it dosed.

 

[WiscoFishNut]

I like the idea of a puffer, but can't really speak to it being a good/bad idea. Have you given thought to going with "utility" group like a 6-line, a lawnmower blenny, and peppermint shrimp? Sexy shrimp love hiding out in macro algae too.

 

[Unitylover]

makes sense

 

[reddevilant]

From experience with small macro tank up to my 7' macro tank I have now.

Stocking a macro tank with enough fish to feed the macros and have them grow quickly is a hard feat. Usually will take larger fish and most of those fish eat macro.

My suggestion would be to stock a few small fish, throw in some pipe for hiding spots until the macro grows out and then dose ammonia to the tank.

I use Austins ammonia in my macro growout tank. I also have fish in there and have no issues with dosing ammonia. I do not dose it to anywhere near even an alert level on a seachem badge, and have never had any losses. It just needs to be dripped in slowly and only a few drops a day. This provides enough ammonia for the macro to consume, but not enough to hurt the fish.

@Subsea also has dosed ammonia directly in the past, and I believe only lost a molly once, as it was right at the place where it was dosed when it dosed.

Thanks for the info! That was another reason I wanted a fish, to just keep the nitrifying bacteria fed so the cycle doesn't crash. Dosing ammonia sounds scary though lol. I have a bottle of like every element you could dose and I don't mind dosing elements a lot, I just figured a fish or two might save me a bottle or two a year. I'll definitely get some bigger pvc, that's a great idea! Any suggestions for smaller fish?

 

[reddevilant]

I like the idea of a puffer, but can't really speak to it being a good/bad idea. Have you given thought to going with "utility" group like a 6-line, a lawnmower blenny, and peppermint shrimp? Sexy shrimp love hiding out in macro algae too.

I haven't really considered wrasses or blennys because like @Unitylover mentioned I felt like I'd have to add a lot more hiding areas and sand to the tank for those species. I wanted to keep the tank a little more minimalistic rather than have a second display.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Thanks for the info! That was another reason I wanted a fish, to just keep the nitrifying bacteria fed so the cycle doesn't crash. Dosing ammonia sounds scary though lol. I have a bottle of like every element you could dose and I don't mind dosing elements a lot, I just figured a fish or two might save me a bottle or two a year. I'll definitely get some bigger pvc, that's a great idea! Any suggestions for smaller fish?

Growing macro, I prefer wrasse and other utility fish. They will eat most pests that can eat macro, like pods. Yes pods are pests in a macro tank lol. Some OK, no control and they eat/reproduce like mad. macro also allows you to do really cool, not so reef safe fish. For example, my caulerpa macro tank has a sargassum angler in it. It is prolifera, so not having pod eating fish is fine. It grows so fast, pods cannot keep up. Adding other fish to that tank is a no go though, unless they are larger than the current sarg's mouth lol.

As for dosing macro, austins ammonia is very low concentration, so a few drops here or there is nothing. But it does make it available for the macro to consume. On top of that, cheatogro is another good thing to have. Doesn't take much of either and the macro will grow very well.

 

[reddevilant]

Growing macro, I prefer wrasse and other utility fish. They will eat most pests that can eat macro, like pods. Yes pods are pests in a macro tank lol. Some OK, no control and they eat/reproduce like mad. macro also allows you to do really cool, not so reef safe fish. For example, my caulerpa macro tank has a sargassum angler in it. It is prolifera, so not having pod eating fish is fine. It grows so fast, pods cannot keep up. Adding other fish to that tank is a no go though, unless they are larger than the current sarg's mouth lol.

As for dosing macro, austins ammonia is very low concentration, so a few drops here or there is nothing. But it does make it available for the macro to consume. On top of that, cheatogro is another good thing to have. Doesn't take much of either and the macro will grow very well.

Ooooh an angler would be cool! That's also why I was thinking of a puffer because I would never be able to have one in my 90 gal with all the inverts in there. It's annoying that some places say they're omnivores and other say carnivore for the Valentini, and others of the Canthigaster genus, which would be the only ones small enough to be happy in a 40 gal.

Yeah I used to have issues with amphipods eating some of the softer stuff but ever since I got cardinals and my clown goby that stopped.

I don't have any experience with wrasses, don't they sleep in the sand? I'd have to add more because I only put in 20 lbs in case I decided to get a mermaids fan algae or something else that would need substrate to grow.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Ooooh an angler would be cool! That's also why I was thinking of a puffer because I would never be able to have one in my 90 gal with all the inverts in there. It's annoying that some places say they're omnivores and other say carnivore for the Valentini, and others of the Canthigaster genus, which would be the only ones small enough to be happy in a 40 gal.

Yeah I used to have issues with amphipods eating some of the softer stuff but ever since I got cardinals and my clown goby that stopped.

I don't have any experience with wrasses, don't they sleep in the sand? I'd have to add more because I only put in 20 lbs in case I decided to get a mermaids fan algae or something else that would need substrate to grow.

Some do and some dont. I do run sand in all my macro stuff, but I have a ton of ones that need it, so have to have it.

I would say the puffer would be a good addition and maybe a few smaller fish to go with it. Great thing with macro is that it opens the door to so many not so reef safe fishes.

 

[Subsea]

Growing macro, I prefer wrasse and other utility fish. They will eat most pests that can eat macro, like pods. Yes pods are pests in a macro tank lol. Some OK, no control and they eat/reproduce like mad. macro also allows you to do really cool, not so reef safe fish. For example, my caulerpa macro tank has a sargassum angler in it. It is prolifera, so not having pod eating fish is fine. It grows so fast, pods cannot keep up. Adding other fish to that tank is a no go though, unless they are larger than the current sarg's mouth lol.

As for dosing macro, austins ammonia is very low concentration, so a few drops here or there is nothing. But it does make it available for the macro to consume. On top of that, cheatogro is another good thing to have. Doesn't take much of either and the macro will grow very well.

Sargassum angler, Neat. For my very first marine aquarium, I collected water from jetties at Galveston, Tx. When the sargassum seaweed came in to the Galveston beaches, I meant it offshore to collect livestock for a Galveston Bay bio type. One lucky find was a leaf fish that floated sideways in the camaflouge of sargassum maze. It was all new to me. I collected puffers and mollies as well as grass shrimp (aka Ghost Shrimp). When I pulled sargassum out of tank to add new livestock collected, it was a full minute before he realized he was no longer camaflouged. It was only then that I saw this guy swim like a normal fish and not a flounder.

 

[Subsea]

Sounds good thanks!

Nope, no corals. I don't even have any in my other tank. Just macro algae and maybe some interesting sponges in the future.

The photosynthetic blue sponge that you got from Paul is being captive bred by ORA. I suspect they are not so demanding on live food & mature systems, similar to corals that have duel feeding mechanisms. I have yellow & red sponges from GOM that do require a mature tank. If you have fish spawning, you have a mature tank with good nutrition for your breeders.

For your quest to find diversity of ornamental macros & sponges, consider getting diver collected live rock. On the man made reef, herbivores grazed heavily so emerging ediable were grazed down. Cured in my dining room 30G tank, I observed an evolution of diversity in micro fauna & fana and macro fauna & fana.
Small yellow ball sponges and emerging red tree as well as fuzzy gorgonians and encrusting Bryozones. I have used two companies out of Tampa Bay. Both TBS & Gulf Live Rock have operated the same offshore permits for > 25yrs.

collection in the winter is weather dependent on GOM condition.

Gulf Live Rock.com

gulfliverock.com