Struggling with PH after Dino’s

[ToadallyNC]

And…. a PH high of 7.5 with a recirculating co2 scrubber! Ever since having the dinoflagellates, the days of 8.2 to 8.3, have disappeared. This is including dosing about a gallon of saturated kalkwasser per day. Any ideas?

 

[HuduVudu]

And…. a PH high of 7.5 with a recirculating co2 scrubber! Ever since having the dinoflagellates, the days of 8.2 to 8.3, have disappeared. This is including dosing about a gallon of saturated kalkwasser per day. Any ideas?

Tank load ... how many fish how many gallons?

 

[Billldg]

PH has a lot to do with photosynthesis.

Are you doing anything, or dosing anything, to deal with the dino's?

Also, what are you using to determine PH?

 

[Garf]

And…. a PH high of 7.5 with a recirculating co2 scrubber! Ever since having the dinoflagellates, the days of 8.2 to 8.3, have disappeared. This is including dosing about a gallon of saturated kalkwasser per day. Any ideas?

Freshly calibrated pH probe?

 

[ToadallyNC]

Tank load ... how many fish how many gallons?

Around 150 gallons system volume with around 20 fish

 

[ToadallyNC]

Freshly calibrated pH probe?

Yes, it’s been calibrated

 

[ToadallyNC]

Don’t think it’s too many fish. Before the Dino’s the ph was fine. Same fish load.

 

[arking_mark]

You can't have a pH of 7.5 unless your tank has very poor circulation, your severely overstocked, your adding a additive that is lowering pH, or your air quality is so bad it's unhealthy for humans.

Or your measurement is off.

 

[HuduVudu]

Don’t think it’s too many fish. Before the Dino’s the ph was fine. Same fish load.

That is a high fish load. You have two issues here. First, CO2 from the respiration from the fish. Second, H+ from ammonia conversion.

One other point if your ambient CO2 is high then the scrubber has to work against too many things to be able to keep up especially if you have good gas exchange against the ambient.

If it were me I would get a CO2 monitor to determine the ambient CO2 and then based on those numbers work from there.

I suspect your ambient is really high and this is the core issue.

Food for thought ... cognitive impairment in humans happens at 1400ppm ambient CO2. In my old house I was seeing numbers north of 2000ppm. CO2 is real and IMO it impacts us more than the creatures in our tank, and much more than we actually suspect.

 

[arking_mark]

To have a pH of 7.5 as a result of your ambient air, your air CO2 would need to be around 2500...well past healthy for humans.

 

[HuduVudu]

To have a pH of 7.5 as a result of your ambient air, your air CO2 would need to be around 2500...well past healthy for humans.

It wouldn't be that high because he has a pretty significant fish load. You would need to account for the ammonia conversion and the respiration.

This would necesitate understanding around feeding and actually weight of fish. If you could get those you would be in the ball park, but I think we can make some educated guesses that the ambient is high.

Best to test to prove the theory though.

 

[Garf]

Yes, it’s been calibrated

Sounds like a measurement issue to me. You say the high is 7.5, so how low does it read? I suppose your Alkalinity is normal?

 

[ToadallyNC]

The high right now is 7.81. I was drawing fresh air from outside to the skimmer, plus, have had the windows up in the house. Opening the windows doesn’t seem to help. Same fish load, same water volume, same people in the house. I will get a co2 detector to see what the ambient is in the house. Thanks for all the replies!

 

[ToadallyNC]

Sounds like a measurement issue to me. You say the high is 7.5, so how low does it read? I suppose your Alkalinity is normal?

My alkalinity is around 9.1. The low ph this morning was 7.67

 

[gbroadbridge]

And…. a PH high of 7.5 with a recirculating co2 scrubber! Ever since having the dinoflagellates, the days of 8.2 to 8.3, have disappeared. This is including dosing about a gallon of saturated kalkwasser per day. Any ideas?

Have you recalibrated the pH probe with FRESH buffer solutions?

 

[ToadallyNC]

Yes! I might add, I have a 20 gallon nano with two small clowns that suffers from low oh as well. It usually runs low around 7.65 and highs around 7.9.

 

[arking_mark]

Yes! I might add, I have a 20 gallon nano with two small clowns that suffers from low oh as well. It usually runs low around 7.65 and highs around 7.9.

Again. This is very likely a measurement issue. If you have decent circulation, are not massively overstocked, have normal indoor air quality (400-800ppm), and are not dosing something to lower pH, then it's no chemically possible to fall below 7.8.

It probably a measurement issue. Many pH tests have a 0.01 fidelity, but a +/- 0.2 accuracy.

You can do a simple aeration test to see where the issue is.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is easy enough to determine the source of the CO2 causing low pH (high indoor CO2, inadequate aeration with indoor air, or pH measurement issues) by doing this aeration test:

The Aeration Test

Some of the possibilities listed above require some effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure the pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. The pH should rise if the pH is unusually low for the measured alkalinity, as in Figure 3 (if it does not rise, most likely one of the measurements (pH or alkalinity) is in error). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If the pH rises there too, then the aquarium pH will rise with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise inside (or rises very little), then the inside air contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should).

 

[arking_mark]

It is easy enough to determine the source of the CO2 causing low pH (high indoor CO2, inadequate aeration with indoor air, or pH measurement issues) by doing this aeration test:

The Aeration Test

Some of the possibilities listed above require some effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure the pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. The pH should rise if the pH is unusually low for the measured alkalinity, as in Figure 3 (if it does not rise, most likely one of the measurements (pH or alkalinity) is in error). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If the pH rises there too, then the aquarium pH will rise with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise inside (or rises very little), then the inside air contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should).

Just a small note. If you aerate your water with outdoor air and measure pH below 8.2, your meter is most likely off.

 

[ToadallyNC]

It is easy enough to determine the source of the CO2 causing low pH (high indoor CO2, inadequate aeration with indoor air, or pH measurement issues) by doing this aeration test:

The Aeration Test

Some of the possibilities listed above require some effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure the pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. The pH should rise if the pH is unusually low for the measured alkalinity, as in Figure 3 (if it does not rise, most likely one of the measurements (pH or alkalinity) is in error). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If the pH rises there too, then the aquarium pH will rise with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise inside (or rises very little), then the inside air contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should).

Thanks Randy!