Sudden death of all fish... Inverts okay?

[Gweeds1980]

Zero nitrates and 0.25 ammonia suggests no cycle is happening... when did you last check ammonia or have a positive nitrate reading? My nitrates always measure as something, however low, so I don't bother with ammonia... if nitrate came in at undetectable then ammonia would be tested immediately.

Did you manage to recover the two dead fish which were missing? If not then this would account for the ammonia reading I guess. If you have then what's happened to interrupt the cycle?

 

[Katrina71]

Get your gf wipes that are already saturated in cleaner or furniture polish. I'm sure she feels terrible already. And thank her for cleaning.

 

[Mr. Bill]

Zero nitrates and 0.25 ammonia suggests no cycle is happening... when did you last check ammonia or have a positive nitrate reading? My nitrates always measure as something, however low, so I don't bother with ammonia... if nitrate came in at undetectable then ammonia would be tested immediately.

Did you manage to recover the two dead fish which were missing? If not then this would account for the ammonia reading I guess. If you have then what's happened to interrupt the cycle?

The cycle is working just fine or the ammonia would be much higher. Some tanks process nitrate into nitrogen gas better than others, hence the reason some have to dose it to feed their corals. I'd question the accuracy of the ammonia test first. I keep at least two test kits available at all times for that very purpose.

 

[MarsRover]

Get your gf wipes that are already saturated in cleaner or furniture polish. I'm sure she feels terrible already. And thank her for cleaning.

Already done! We were cleaning together and talking while she was spraying the glad straight into the rag. I saw some puff out but thought against saying anything since it didn't seem like it was going to be an issue. She does feel terrible but I told her it wasn't her fault. We were both cleaning and it isn't 100% tied to the cleaner regardless of its contribution to the situation. She is very attached to living things and I made it very clear that it isnt her fault

The cycle is working just fine or the ammonia would be much higher. Some tanks process nitrate into nitrogen gas better than others, hence the reason some have to dose it to feed their corals. I'd question the accuracy of the ammonia test first. I keep at least two test kits available at all times for that very purpose.

Yeah, about 4 weeks ago I tested zero on nitrates and I honestly didn't believe it. I've never tested ZERO but my kit was pretty fresh and I had no other means to double check. I decided to order triton to back my personal tests up but before I could use that this fish thing happened.

Zero nitrates and 0.25 ammonia suggests no cycle is happening... when did you last check ammonia or have a positive nitrate reading? My nitrates always measure as something, however low, so I don't bother with ammonia... if nitrate came in at undetectable then ammonia would be tested immediately.

Did you manage to recover the two dead fish which were missing? If not then this would account for the ammonia reading I guess. If you have then what's happened to interrupt the cycle?

I was able to find one in the display. The other was in my sump (pseudochromis being a jerk to literally everyone, almost killed my wrasse) I can't find for the life of me. I dug all through the sump and no luck. I'll give it one more shot tonight. So one fish still unaccounted for.

Now this API test kit corroborates zero nitrate. The small amount of ammonia might be from the perishing fish or from feeding them earlier in the day before they died.

 

[jsker]

Just finished read through the thread, and kudos to everyone's great detective work. One thing I did see, is even cleaning with ammonia. I will not even use a cleaner with ammonia with in 10' for the system.

 

[Brew12]

I'm very sorry for your losses. It really is tough.

Interesting.... I feel like everyone i talk to says something different. Can't hurt to have both!

The swing arm hydrometers are strongly discouraged since they bind. If you have a bulb type that floats in the water they are excellent. Better than a refractometer imo since they never need calibrating.

One thing I did see, is even cleaning with ammonia. I will not even use a cleaner with ammonia with in 10' for the system.

I agree with this. In a larger, very mature system cleaning with ammonia isn't going to cause a problem. In a smaller or newer system, it could be very bad. Personally, I use vinegar to clean around my tank but that might not have worked in your case either. Any agent that adds carbon/alcohol to your system can cause a bacteria bloom and drop your O2 levels. I feel it would be a little unusual for a low O2 event to occur with a skimmer running though.
Also wanted to comment on pH. pH is related strictly to CO2 content and has little or nothing to do with O2 content. It is possible for a tank to have both high or low O2 levels but if CO2 is constant, pH will be constant. It is an interesting clue, but not much more than that.

Soap can also cause suffocation in a fish. It interferes with a fish's gills ability to absorb oxygen. I guess this isn't a likely cause since it doesn't sound like you've had your hands in the affected tank a lot. Any chance you used a scrub brush or something similar on the new tank and then reused it on the affected tank? The smell is what made me think of it.

 

[Jlentz]

Fwiw, I only allow 50/50 vinegar/rodi in the house in place of windex or similar spray bottles. Thankfully wifey doesn't like scented candles/glade crap. Pledge wipes.

 

[Tautog]

+1 Jlentz, Vinegar/R/O water in a spray bottle will clean everything just fine, and the best thing is you can spray it everywhere, even in the tank, and it won't bother anything.

 

[MarsRover]

Thanks for the kind words folks. I appreciate it.

The swing arm hydrometers are strongly discouraged since they bind. If you have a bulb type that floats in the water they are excellent. Better than a refractometer imo since they never need calibrating.

Soap can also cause suffocation in a fish. It interferes with a fish's gills ability to absorb oxygen. I guess this isn't a likely cause since it doesn't sound like you've had your hands in the affected tank a lot. Any chance you used a scrub brush or something similar on the new tank and then reused it on the affected tank? The smell is what made me think of it.

No, no brushes or anything in the tank. I have a dedicated brush for the tank that lives in the sump cabinet incase I need to scrub something.

the only issue with the bulb float types is they are subject to parallax error. I don't mind callibrating a sensor. But as someone suggested, getting another calibration fluid would be nice.

 

[zed102]

Not sure if you mentioned this, but I would also check the temp with the metal halides running in the day. It may be getting high if you aren't running any cooling which could make the problem worse.

 

[MarsRover]

Not sure if you mentioned this, but I would also check the temp with the metal halides running in the day. It may be getting high if you aren't running any cooling which could make the problem worse.

Yup. I have a chiller. Yesterday morning I actually turned down the deadband range for this exact reason. That way there's more margin for dissolved O2

 

[MarsRover]

Triton came in yesterday. Got a bunch of heavy metals in the tank!

Will be picking up cuprasorb as soon as the LFS store opens (1300)...might explain a few things....

I'm starting to think there is something else going on here other than the Pledge spray possible contamination.

I have a heater or pump in my saltmaking station that i suspect has been leaking voltage (every once in a while i get a little tingle that i think may be one of the units). I suspect heavy metals inside of these things, plus the voltage leak, are causing them to dissolve into the water......

thoughts?

I also used to dose B-Ionic 2 part until i realized my tank like doesn't consume magnesium.... and so my mag was getting out of control so i've stopped all together and gone back to managing everything with water changes for the time being until everything is back to normal levels.

I use Red Sea Pro salt

 

[Brew12]

Triton came in yesterday. Got a bunch of heavy metals in the tank!

Will be picking up cuprasorb as soon as the LFS store opens (1300)...might explain a few things....

I'm starting to think there is something else going on here other than the Pledge spray possible contamination.

I have a heater or pump in my saltmaking station that i suspect has been leaking voltage (every once in a while i get a little tingle that i think may be one of the units). I suspect heavy metals inside of these things, plus the voltage leak, are causing them to dissolve into the water......

thoughts?

I also used to dose B-Ionic 2 part until i realized my tank like doesn't consume magnesium.... and so my mag was getting out of control so i've stopped all together and gone back to managing everything with water changes for the time being until everything is back to normal levels.

I use Red Sea Pro salt

Triton came in yesterday. Got a bunch of heavy metals in the tank!

Will be picking up cuprasorb as soon as the LFS store opens (1300)...might explain a few things....

I'm starting to think there is something else going on here other than the Pledge spray possible contamination.

I have a heater or pump in my saltmaking station that i suspect has been leaking voltage (every once in a while i get a little tingle that i think may be one of the units). I suspect heavy metals inside of these things, plus the voltage leak, are causing them to dissolve into the water......

thoughts?

I also used to dose B-Ionic 2 part until i realized my tank like doesn't consume magnesium.... and so my mag was getting out of control so i've stopped all together and gone back to managing everything with water changes for the time being until everything is back to normal levels.

I use Red Sea Pro salt

Yup, I agree that you have a failed piece of electrical gear in your system. This is one of the main reasons I suggest everyone use a GFCI and a ground probe for everything in their tank. Even if you rule out the safety for people, it is better for fish. If you have voltage leaking in your tank it means you have copper exposed to the salt water. If you have current flowing, that will speed up the rate the copper corrodes, not to mention any heat that could melt plastics.

 

[Mr. Bill]

Copper is off the scale? Hmmm... How do your corals look? We treat fish with copper, but as we all know, it's lethal to corals and inverts. I'd grab a Cu test kit just for assurance before adding anything. JM2C

 

[MarsRover]

Yup, I agree that you have a failed piece of electrical gear in your system. This is one of the main reasons I suggest everyone use a GFCI and a ground probe for everything in their tank. Even if you rule out the safety for people, it is better for fish. If you have voltage leaking in your tank it means you have copper exposed to the salt water. If you have current flowing, that will speed up the rate the copper corrodes, not to mention any heat that could melt plastics.

Glad we're on the same page

Copper is off the scale? Hmmm... How do your corals look? We treat fish with copper, but as we all know, it's lethal to corals and inverts. I'd grab a Cu test kit just for assurance before adding anything. JM2C

Yes, mega high copper. I would be hesitant to believe it myself if there weren't also other heavy metals AND I know a heater had been "leaking" in my water station.

As for corals, most of my SPS bleached after the fish-incident. My LPS seem okay and other inverts seem okay as well.

I put cuprisorb into my tank yesterday. Can't hurt. I'll get a copper test today and see what the copper level looks like after ~24 hours of cuprisorb.

Thanks for sticking with me folks!