Sudden fish death, PH spike

[JasTheReefer]

I stopped running my protein skimmer for three days since it overflowed and isn’t producing nothing but clear smelly water. Today I turned it back on after 2 fish dying and my Ph spiking. My 2nd fish was acting like he couldn’t breath and died before I could fill my quarantine tank. My ph is 8.4, it usually runs around 8.0. Will running my protein skimmer lower my PH? All other levels are good.
Ph- 8.4
Nitrate- 0-10ppm
Nitrite- 0
Ammonia- 0
Phosphate- .5
No fish showed no signs of disease, completely healthy until today leaving me to believe the PH spike in my tank caused them to freak out. Ph on the 21st was 8.0 today the 26th was 8.4. Any suggestions?
Fish were a fire fish and a diamond watchman goby. Two clownfish are still in the tank healthy and seem perfectly normal even biting me today while I moved around rocks and cleaned up algae.

 

[Jekyl]

Sounds like your skimmer wasn't adjusted correctly. Also turning it off would lower, not raise Ph.

 

[C. Eymann]

8.4- If it really is 8.4 (how are you testing? properly calibrated probe?) -wont kill fish, however if ammonia is present pH can play a factor as ammonia becomes more dangerous for fish at higher pH levels.

8.4 is actually a great pH level for a reef tank.

-Will running my protein skimmer decrease pH?
Depends on the CO2 concentration of the ambient air og the room the aquarium is in, high CO2= lower pH, lower CO2 can increase pH, there are other factors as well that play into account like barometric pressure, level of dissolved CO2/ carbonic acid of the aquarium etc etc, bit turning a skimmer on can absolutely decrease pH and vice versa depending on those variables

If the fish really had no signs of disease I would test ammonia/ nitrite level, esp if its a newer setup and you have a full cup on nasty skimmate get dumped in the water.

Also I would make sure to rule out potential chemical contamination / cleaners, detergents etc etc introduction of those very well may have caused your skimmer to overflow a few days ago.

Sorry about your troubles/ loss, hope you get the cause figured out

 

[JasTheReefer]

8.4- If it really is 8.4 (how are you testing? properly calibrated probe?) -wont kill fish, however if ammonia is present pH can play a factor as ammonia becomes more dangerous for fish at higher pH levels.

8.4 is actually a great pH level for a reef tank.

-Will running my protein skimmer decrease pH?
Depends on the CO2 concentration of the ambient air og the room the aquarium is in, high CO2= lower pH, lower CO2 can increase pH, there are other factors as well that play into account like barometric pressure, level of dissolved CO2/ carbonic acid of the aquarium etc etc, bit turning a skimmer on can absolutely decrease pH and vice versa depending on those variables

If the fish really had no signs of disease I would test ammonia/ nitrite level, esp if its a newer setup and you have a full cup on nasty skimmate get dumped in the water.

Also I would make sure to rule out potential chemical contamination / cleaners, detergents etc etc introduction of those very well may have caused your skimmer to overflow a few days ago.

Sorry about your troubles/ loss, hope you get the cause figured out

So if my PH is not what killed the fish, what would have? I am using api test kits, I will test in one minute with Red Sea test kit for PH. I have zero ammonia and zero nitrite. Tested today when I noticed my fish dying. Maybe from lotion? I have pretty dry hands from washing my hands so often at work, been using lotion could that harm my fish? I do wash my hands before putting them in the tank the majority of the time. That would be the only contaminant I can think of. I’m new to reef keeping the tank is 2 months old, I saw nothing to my Knowledge when it comes to disease. No spots, no scratching no irrational breathing until today. Even checked both dead bodies for anything abnormal. I don’t understand what’s the issue is 8.4 isn’t high. Could it rising so fast have killed the fish?

 

[JasTheReefer]

Sounds like your skimmer wasn't adjusted correctly. Also turning it off would lower, not raise Ph.

Sounds like your skimmer wasn't adjusted correctly. Also turning it off would lower, not raise Ph.

My skimmer has never overflowed before, I have it set at about half height. It’s a Hob protein skimmer, usually does not overflow and is nasty brown stuff. It’s been clear and very watery lately even right now it keeps almost overflowing I’m keeping a close eye on it hoping it will work itself out. The bubbles also don’t seem to be popping but sticking together and are actually rather large bubbles or clumps of very small bubbles.

 

[Jekyl]

My skimmer has never overflowed before, I have it set at about half height. It’s a Hob protein skimmer, usually does not overflow and is nasty brown stuff. It’s been clear and very watery lately even right now it keeps almost overflowing I’m keeping a close eye on it hoping it will work itself out. The bubbles also don’t seem to be popping but sticking together and are actually rather large bubbles or clumps of very small bubbles.

Possibly something on your hands caused it. Could try running some carbon to help clean it up. I'd try to keep your hands out of the tank as much as possible. I don't even allow glade plug-ins in my fish room.

 

[JasTheReefer]

Possibly something on your hands caused it. Could try running some carbon to help clean it up. I'd try to keep your hands out of the tank as much as possible. I don't even allow glade plug-ins in my fish room.

Will definitely do so, have had a lot of snails flipping over so I have had my hands in a lot lately righting them. I will buy gloves definitely to start wearing incase lotion is the issue although I wash my hands before going in the tank.

 

[mdb_talon]

Sounds like your skimmer wasn't adjusted correctly. Also turning it off would lower, not raise Ph.

Depends completely on room co2 vs tank. Lack of aeration can inflate PH it is just not what we normally are concerned with

 

[Greg P]

The lotion is a possibility. It would also stop your skimmer from making foam.
Even if it's not the cause, consider getting some arm-length gloves

 

[JasTheReefer]

Ph is definitely 8.4, checked again with Red Sea to compare to API, also checked Alk which is 4.5. Could this be the cause for my fish dying? Corals also don’t seem very happy I thought maybe that from the diatoms going on. Definitely buying gloves! Will continue to let my skimmer get out whatever was in there. Also will be doing a 15% water change again, I just did my biweekly water change but with dead fish and whatever issue going on I will be doing another after I get salt tomorrow.

 

[jassermd]

Is your Alk really 4.5??? That's really low!
IF that is an accurate reading, it's hard for me to believe your pH is 8.4...
And, if your Alk is 4.5, then that's likely the issue that's causing your problems...
What test did you use to test for Alk?

If it were me, I would do a larger water change (25-30%) and repeat in a couple days to get your parameters closer to range and then retest before doing too much. Something isn't adding up...

 

[JasTheReefer]

Is your Alk really 4.5??? That's really low!
IF that is an accurate reading, it's hard for me to believe your pH is 8.4...
And, if your Alk is 4.5, then that's likely the issue that's causing your problems...
What test did you use to test for Alk?

If it were me, I would do a larger water change (25-30%) and repeat in a couple days to get your parameters closer to range and then retest before doing too much. Something isn't adding up...

I am not one to chase numbers or would have been dosing my stuff sooner! I completely forgot that PH and Alk run from each other. I just dosed my Alk and Trace elements to bring that up, explains my sad corals. Will ALk hurt my fish? What would cause Alk to drop and ph to rise, will recheck again but I’m using Red Sea test kit for ALK, checking again now.

 

[Jekyl]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[JasTheReefer]

Dosed my Alk, it is now reading 5.5, PH is also steady 8.4, maybe 8.4+ it is pretty dark purple but looks 8.4 to me.

 

[C. Eymann]

how big of tank is this? does it have a sump? if is it an all in one or no sump tank? and you shut down your skimmer -does the surface of the water have good agitation? (powerheads/ wave makers in tank?) If not low O2 saturation is possible if the surface is fairly stagnant

Hand lotion I would think have oils in it that would cause less water surface tension so if anything it would make your skimmer work inefficient / trouble building foam head, but depending on whats in it, certain chemicals, extracts, aloe vera etc etc could be the cause of your skimmer going nuts, those extracts/ chems could potentially interfere with the fishes gills/ respiration too?

 

[JasTheReefer]

how big of tank is this? does it have a sump? if is it an all in one or no sump tank? and you shut down your skimmer -does the surface of the water have good agitation? (powerheads/ wave makers in tank?) If not low O2 saturation is possible if the surface is fairly stagnant

Hand lotion I would think have oils in it that would cause less water surface tension so if anything it would make your skimmer work inefficient / trouble building foam head, but depending on whats in it, certain chemicals, extracts, aloe vera etc etc could be the cause of your skimmer going nuts, those extracts/ chems could potentially interfere with the fishes gills/ respiration too?

75gallon, no sump, hob filter and protein skimmer. 2 wave makers, one specifically for surface agitation. 2 month old tank post cycle. Had 1 fire fish (dead) 1 diamond goby (dead) and 2 clownfish (alive) a cleaner shrimp an assortment of corals, snails and hermits.

 

[vetteguy53081]

One of my suspicions is the tank may not be fully cycled or mature and you have fish on tank, and may be getting false reading (as with 0 ammonia) as API is notorious for false test results especially with NO2 and ammonia and have let down many reefers, hence the low price for a master kit.
As A suggestion, take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API kits and have them test your readings and see what they come up with.

 

[JasTheReefer]

One of my suspicions is the tank may not be fully cycled or mature and you have fish on tank, and may be getting false reading (as with 0 ammonia) as API is notorious for false test results especially with NO2 and ammonia and have let down many reefers, hence the low price for a master kit.
As A suggestion, take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API kits and have them test your readings and see what they come up with.

I actually read a lot about api test kits bc I was using it during most of my cycle but halfway thru I started using Red Sea to double check, my tank fully cycled in about 1 month and I waited another week till I got fish. I added 2 clownfish, 1 fire fish 4 hermits and 3 snails. Waited one month and added diamond goby, and more snails hermits, just last week about 2 weeks after getting the diamond goby n batch of cuc, added a handful more snails and a cleaner shrimp. All has been completely healthy, no ammonia or nitrite and low readings of nitrate due to diatoms and my corals along with some gha. It has been a completely healthy and new tank until today when I found 2 dead fish. I have had pretty stable parameters until now. Readings normally are
Ph- 8.0
Nitrate- 0-20
Kh- 7
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0

nothing has swung accept for my nitrate which actually is 0-10 rn, assuming from corals n the gha starting to pop up along with diatoms.

 

[JasTheReefer]

I do have a handful corals added slowly thru the 2 months.
Duncan coral (about to have more head pop out I can see them forming on the sides) a zoa(seems very unhappy actually receeding) a goniopora (bought because I loved it before I knew it was a bad beginner coral, doesn’t seem too happy not opening up fully like usually but isn’t receeding) a Rhondactis mushroom ( seems fine not receeding not growing open everyday) and a acro (seems perfectly fine)