Suggested cycling method

QuinnLee512

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I have been watching the BRS 5 minute videos on youtube and they suggest cycling with a clownfish and Dr Tim's One and Only. If I went this route, would I have to quarantine the clownfish first? I am also looking into going fishless and just use Dr Tim's One and Only and Ammonium Chloride Solution. What is the 2021 preferred method? I've seen lots of folks say that using a clownfish is the old way of thinking. My goal is to cycle the tank as fast as possible. I have a Biocube 32 with Caribsea life rocks.
 
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atul176

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I have been watching the BRS 5 minute videos on youtube and they suggest cycling with a clownfish and Dr Tim's One and Only. If I went this route, would I have to quarantine the clownfish first? I am also looking into going fishless and just use Dr Tim's One and Only and Ammonium Chloride Solution. What is the 2021 preferred method? I've seen lots of folks say that using a clownfish is the old way of thinking. My goal is to cycle the tank as fast as possible. I have a Biocube 32.
If your going to use a fish you probably should quarantine, but dropping in a healthy clownfish in a tank with plenty of porous spaces, then dosing biospira is how I do it. I would use bio spira rather than dr Tim’s because it has worked much faster for me. Using ammonium chloride won’t hurt tho.
 
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QuinnLee512

QuinnLee512

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If your going to use a fish you probably should quarantine, but dropping in a healthy clownfish in a tank with plenty of porous spaces, then dosing biospira is how I do it. I would use bio spira rather than dr Tim’s because it has worked much faster for me. Using ammonium chloride won’t hurt tho.
Do you quarantine when you use bio-spira? I'm still researching how to set up a QT.
 

Jedi1199

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Why would you QT a fish going into a brand new tank? The 2 reasons for QT are to observe for and treat parasites and illness before adding a new specimen to a tank that may spread to other heathy livestock.

Set up your tank.. add your bottle bacteria and add your fish.
 

brandon429

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You can do that and it will work. Buy a pre quarantined clownfish and the rest of the fish added needs to be prepped as well. Today’s cycling bottle bac allows for instant cycle control, it does not harm fish. Disease vectoring is the risk in today’s cycling and you’ve considered that angle, nicely done.

some folks worry about bad bottles or ruined bottles of bac. I’ve cycled hundreds of reefs on this site and never seen it once so that wasn’t a concern for me here. All reports of dead bottles cannot be found in my cycling threads they’re one off reports from others studying cycling. When it happens to us for the first time I’ll quit recommending the option.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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that’s a fun thread here’s the summary

challenge the crew on page one that fish + instant bottle bac cycling doesn’t harm fish, they begin angry


and by page 14 they agree, a mere fourteen pages to effect a total turnabout. Disease was the risk the whole time.
 

Jedi1199

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@brandon429

Isn't the Caribsea liferock the stuff that comes prepared with all of the cycling bacteria impregnated into the rock itself in dormant form? Shouldn't that jumpstart the cycle almost immediately? Along with the bottled bac, the cycle is almost instantaneous correct?

@QuinnLee512


For what its worth, I set up a biocube 32 around 6 or 7 weeks ago.. I used 1 bag of Caribsea live sand, 2 large rocks from my existing tank and about 15 gallons or so of the water from the same existing tank. Fish (pair of Percula clowns) went in the same night and have been happy and healthy ever since.
 
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QuinnLee512

QuinnLee512

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@brandon429

Isn't the Caribsea liferock the stuff that comes prepared with all of the cycling bacteria impregnated into the rock itself in dormant form? Shouldn't that jumpstart the cycle almost immediately? Along with the bottled bac, the cycle is almost instantaneous correct?

@QuinnLee512


For what its worth, I set up a biocube 32 around 6 or 7 weeks ago.. I used 1 bag of Caribsea live sand, 2 large rocks from my existing tank and about 15 gallons or so of the water from the same existing tank. Fish (pair of Percula clowns) went in the same night and have been happy and healthy ever since.
Isn't that a different scenario? You're using water that's been through the cycling process whereas I'm trying to get mine cycled?
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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I have seen liferock cycles complete after a small wait time but I have not seen examples of them instantly carrying fish with no bottle bac used, we’d have to see that example to know if the bac emerge fast enough

Dr Tim’s has completed the lions share of fish in cycles we see online, I truly estimate there’s fifty thousand examples to peruse and i can’t find a single fail among them all. Bottle bac is this good nowadays

any dry rocks, plus clown, plus Dr. Tims will present a skip cycle/ no wait required. While technically possible to receive dead bottle bac it’s never happened to us so I’ve quit worrying about it till we get a single event logged we can see in a thread. Currently all known examples are fine happy fish.
 
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brandon429

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Set up a qt and have a sponge filter, some sort of copy from an existing qt

add the fish, add the bottle bac, now the qt is skip cycled. Have enough surface area beyond pvc pipes in place and that bottle bac will instantly seed any surface area it’s dosed into. the bac float around a while, handling waste, and then attach to internal surfaces in 48 hours or so per Dr Reefs timing study thread. If you have enough surface area in the qt to be long term viable, you can start it this same way.


displays never run low on surface area, rocks and sand attachment points

quarantine setups need good surface area filters to make up for being mostly glass and plastic


to get your display ready, dose bottle bac into it and one pinch of grinder up flake feed itll be ready at the end of qt, no testing no more feeding required, one single pinch of ground up flake food will do. Dr Reef used this method as well
 
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Jedi1199

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Isn't that a different scenario? You're using water that's been through the cycling process whereas I'm trying to get mine cycled?


@QuinnLee512

Brandon is the forum's leading expert of tank cycling. If he says that you are good to go from day 1 with bottled bac, then you are good to go.
 

Jedi1199

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Isn't this a catch-22? If I have to quarantine the clown, don't I need cycled water for the QT? But cycling the water is what I need the clown for.

That is basically my point. If you have to set up and cycle a QT tank, why not just set up and cycle your DT and save the QT for a later time when you actually need it?

Edit: I would add a couple extra rock pieces into the sump area of your biocube so that if and when you DO need a QT set up in a hurry, you already have the rock with the live bio you need to skip-cycle it.
 

Joe31415

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Why would you QT a fish going into a brand new tank? The 2 reasons for QT are to observe for and treat parasites and illness before adding a new specimen to a tank that may spread to other heathy livestock.
Because something like Ich will just keep re-infecting the fish over and over. If you don't catch it, you'll infect every fish that goes in after it, if you do catch it, now you have to deal with Ich in your DT. Assuming you don't want to put copper in your DT, you'll have to get a QT set up and the DT will have to run fallow for 76 days.

Isn't this a catch-22? If I have to quarantine the clown, don't I need cycled water for the QT? But cycling the water is what I need the clown for.
No, you can put a fish in an uncycled tank, but you'll have do a lot of water changes and stay on top of checking the parameters. It's a lot easier to change out 5 gallons in a 10 or 20 gallon tank every day than a similar amount of water in a larger DT. Also, medicating a larger tank requires more meds (IOW, it costs more).

That is basically my point. If you have to set up and cycle a QT tank, why not just set up and cycle your DT and save the QT for a later time when you actually need it?
Personally, I'd set up a QT the fish in a separate tank while the DT is cycling.
If for no other reason, you're going to need it anyway if you plan to QT fish, which I assume you are. So this way you'll have it all set up and ready to go. Plus, if you need to pull a fish out of the DT, you know you have everything on hand so the only thing that will slow you down is waiting for the water to heat up. It's better than trying to think of everything you'll need, hoping you don't get home and realize you forgot a heater or a power strip or something like that. If you plan to medicate (instead of observe) in the QT, you'll have meds on hand also.

Short answer, if you're going to QT everything, you should, IMO, QT the first fish going in as well. It doesn't seem logical, but it's the right way.

For what it's worth, I had the same question as you when I started stocking my tank. I reluctantly set up a QT knowing my first two fish wouldn't be in the tank for at least another month. I ran them though copper and all the meds Humble Fish recommended and they still managed to have Ich or Velvet or something (I don't recall what we decided it was). It ended up taking almost three months to get cleared up. And the sick fish looked 100% fine when I got it and all the way through copper. Whatever it was, I'm glad I didn't introduce it to the DT.
 

Azedenkae

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I have been watching the BRS 5 minute videos on youtube and they suggest cycling with a clownfish and Dr Tim's One and Only. If I went this route, would I have to quarantine the clownfish first? I am also looking into going fishless and just use Dr Tim's One and Only and Ammonium Chloride Solution. What is the 2021 preferred method? I've seen lots of folks say that using a clownfish is the old way of thinking. My goal is to cycle the tank as fast as possible. I have a Biocube 32 with Caribsea life rocks.
This method would not include quarantining the fish, the doing so would be beneficial. You can do it, that's fine. Just need a bottle of Prime or similar on hand to detoxify ammonia when necessary.
 
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QuinnLee512

QuinnLee512

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Thank you everyone. Seems like the consensus is to QT the first fish. It just didn't see logical to me at the time. I was like "isn't the DT just a big QT at this point"?

Seems like I will go the fishless cycling route then while I set up the QT and get my first fish ready. What's everyone's take on Dr Tim's method? Seems like all I need is One and Only and Ammonium Chloride.

 

Jedi1199

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Because something like Ich will just keep re-infecting the fish over and over. If you don't catch it, you'll infect every fish that goes in after it, if you do catch it, now you have to deal with Ich in your DT. Assuming you don't want to put copper in your DT, you'll have to get a QT set up and the DT will have to run fallow for 76 days.


No, you can put a fish in an uncycled tank, but you'll have do a lot of water changes and stay on top of checking the parameters. It's a lot easier to change out 5 gallons in a 10 or 20 gallon tank every day than a similar amount of water in a larger DT. Also, medicating a larger tank requires more meds (IOW, it costs more).


Personally, I'd set up a QT the fish in a separate tank while the DT is cycling.
If for no other reason, you're going to need it anyway if you plan to QT fish, which I assume you are. So this way you'll have it all set up and ready to go. Plus, if you need to pull a fish out of the DT, you know you have everything on hand so the only thing that will slow you down is waiting for the water to heat up. It's better than trying to think of everything you'll need, hoping you don't get home and realize you forgot a heater or a power strip or something like that. If you plan to medicate (instead of observe) in the QT, you'll have meds on hand also.

Short answer, if you're going to QT everything, you should, IMO, QT the first fish going in as well. It doesn't seem logical, but it's the right way.

For what it's worth, I had the same question as you when I started stocking my tank. I reluctantly set up a QT knowing my first two fish wouldn't be in the tank for at least another month. I ran them though copper and all the meds Humble Fish recommended and they still managed to have Ich or Velvet or something (I don't recall what we decided it was). It ended up taking almost three months to get cleared up. And the sick fish looked 100% fine when I got it and all the way through copper. Whatever it was, I'm glad I didn't introduce it to the DT.


Well I am not going to argue the QT or no-QT topic. I don't do it, never have and never had a problem. But that is my own experience. I completely understand the safety and prudence in doing the QT, I just choose not to.

The OP is cycling a brand new tank. There is nothing in it to infect if she does get an infected fish. Further, if she DOES get an infected fish, she will be moving it into a treatment tank, at which point the DT will run fallow anyway. Are you tracking my logic here?
 

Joe31415

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The OP is cycling a brand new tank. There is nothing in it to infect if she does get an infected fish. Further, if she DOES get an infected fish, she will be moving it into a treatment tank, at which point the DT will run fallow anyway. Are you tracking my logic here?
I understand where you're coming from. I'm just saying if the new fish ends up having, say, Ich, the DT will be fishless (but inverts should be okay, I think) for another 2.5 months. So, I know the OP wants to get fish into the tank, we all do, my point was just that if something does get into the tank with that first fish, they'll be waiting a lot longer.

I used biospira to quick cycle my quarantine tank.
That's what I've been doing as well. I feel filter sponges in the DT sump and use them, plus some BioSpira when I need the QT up and running. And, in one case, I had a seeded sponge and some biospira in one QT and a new sponge in a different QT. Both with Ammonia Alerts. The QT with the new sponge needed it's water changed considerably more often. Like 3 times a week. The tank with the seeded sponge/bio spira could easily make it two weeks (sometimes a month) without any ammonia issues, which is nice when the tank has copper in it.
 

blaxsun

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If your going to use a fish you probably should quarantine, but dropping in a healthy clownfish in a tank with plenty of porous spaces, then dosing biospira is how I do it. I would use bio spira rather than dr Tim’s because it has worked much faster for me. Using ammonium chloride won’t hurt tho.
That's what I did as well. +1 for Biospira. I moved everything to a new setup in 24 hours.
 

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