Suggested Submersible Return Pump for 90 Gal Tank?

Manda0597

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I will be setting up a 90 gal tank system I am picking up this weekend. It is a fully running system but from my research the return pump now must be old as I can't find anywhere to purchase one and all posts about it are from 2012-2013. I know that is the most important thing and I don't want it to crap out on me at random so I would feel better knowing I have a new pump, even if everything else is used. It is a Waveline DC5000 return pump. Any suggestions on an economical, reliable option to replace it with? Not looking for all the bells and whistles. Budget $100. Also this will be my first time using a sump so any tips would be great.
 

Ron Reefman

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I think keeping it under $100 may be the issue.

There are a lot of DC pumps now that are in the 6000 to 9000 lph range (1600 to 2400gph). Most will have multiple speeds which can be helpful. Also a feed mode if you like to feed with the return shut down or even all the water movement stopped.

I'd recommend Reef Breeders. They are a sponsor here and have a sponsor forum so it's easy to ask them for help. I believe they carry a couple of brands. I've bought lights, pumps, wavemakers, skimmer and ATO from them. The owner, Logan, is a first class guy and does great customer service if it's ever needed.
 

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I use a jebao dcp10000 on a 90g with a 35g sump. It’s dialed down to 40%. They are cheap enough to have two in case one burns out. I have about 18 months on the first one. Hate to admit it but it’s been ran dry more times than I care to admit...and still working strong *knock on wood*
 
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Manda0597

Manda0597

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I use a jaebo dcp10000 on a 90g with a 35g sump. It’s dialed down to 40%. They are cheap enough to have two in case one burns out. I have about 18 months on the first one. Hate to admit it but it’s been ran dry more times than I care to admit...and still working strong *knock on wood*
What does ran dry mean? As I said this is my first time using a sump so I have to learn the Do's and Don'ts Lol
 

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Running your pump dry is a “don’t”. It means I let the water evaporate too much and the water level in the sump got low enough that the return pump was not able to suck any water. Not good for any of the pumps we use in this hobby.
 
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Manda0597

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Running your pump dry is a “don’t”. It means I let the water evaporate too much and the water level in the sump got low enough that the return pump was not able to suck any water. Not good for any of the pumps we use in this hobby.
Oh ok so you just didn't do a water change/add water? Sorry I'm a rookie lol
 

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I didn’t do much of anything with the tank when I was pregnant. As the water evaporates, the specific gravity rises and you have to add rodi water (this is called top off water) to keep the water level consistent and the specific gravity stable. Some people use automatic systems that add top off water as needed, I haven’t set mine up yet. If you’re picking up an established tank this weekend I suggest you spend quite a bit of time reading through this forum. Also may want to check out the BRS 52 weeks of reefing on YouTube. BRS is bulk reef supply and they are a popular vendor for saltwater needs.
theres a lot of helpful people on this site that can help guide you but you have to get a basic understanding as well.
 
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Manda0597

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I didn’t do much of anything with the tank when I was pregnant. As the water evaporates, the specific gravity rises and you have to add rodi water (this is called top off water) to keep the water level consistent and the specific gravity stable. Some people use automatic systems that add top off water as needed, I haven’t set mine up yet. If you’re picking up an established tank this weekend I suggest you spend quite a bit of time reading through this forum. Also may want to check out the BRS 52 weeks of reefing on YouTube. BRS is bulk reef supply and they are a popular vendor for saltwater needs.
theres a lot of helpful people on this site that can help guide you but you have to get a basic understanding as well.
I have a 36 gallon but it is a canister filter. I am just not familiar with sumps, but i am familiarizing myself.
 

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I agree that keeping it at 100 is a big factor.

I was in the same boat, so I just saved and saved and put my project off for an extra 2 months. I ended up getting an Ecotech Vectra.

I am on course to being ready in august/September
 

TriggerFinger

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Ok so Your water evaporates from the tank in your current set up. When you have a sump, the water evaporation shows in the return pump section of the sump. I didn’t add top off for a while so the return section of my sump ran dry, causing the pump to suck air. Does that help?
 

Cwentz758

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To explain in another way.

so your tank is going to have some sort of overflow or is going to have a drilled bulkhead that drains water into your sump. Let’s say just for numbers sake your drain drains 500 gallons per hour into the sump.

the first section on the sump when water drains into usually has a filter sock attached to catch any floaters from the display tank (floaters as in detritus and anything else floating)

the water then goes over a baffle into a second section which generally is used as an area for a skimmer and a spot for a reactor if you went down that road.

next is another set of baffles sometimes referred to as a bubble trap.
B098FDC2-8DF6-4BE8-AB31-31DBBB19653F.png
Then another area of open water where your return pump goes.

Now the fun part. Remember the 500 gallons that drains into the sump? Let’s say you get a pump rated at 500 GPH (gallons per hour). You will flood your floor if you think that it will push 500 GPH up some plumbing into the tank. There’s a thing called “head pressure”. Basically this means the pump is pushing against gravity with the water along with around bends in your plumbing which reduces the amount of water your pump will push. Usually you have to buy a higher rated pump and calculate how far the water will travel upward and look at the chart the pump usually comes with to see how much water it will push up a certain distance. Here’s the HEAD chart for Ecotech pumps
A9EEDB62-482E-44FF-AB00-A99861163450.png

To overcome head pressure you can do two things, one have a gate valve NOT a ball valve on your drain into the sump and adjust the amount of water flowing into your sump to where your pump keeps a constant level of water in its chamber OR you can buy a pumps more than 500 GPH and use a valve to reduce the amount of water it pushes (AC pump only). If you get a DC pump they have a controller where you can adjust the amount of flow with some sort of controller they provide.

Now let’s say you run your pump full blast and it’s pushing too much water into your tank to what drains. As stated aboveyou don’t want to run your pump dry so in this case you’re pumping to much water to fast and it’s sucking air along with some water. One you’re eventually going to ruin the pump and two it’ll be load AF and put a bunch of air bubbles in the tank. Another way to run dry is evaporation. Throughout the day your tank will evaporate and your sump will continue to push water into it, but lowers the level of water in the return pump area. Once too much evaporates the return area becomes to low and you’re pumping are and exposing the pump and running “dry”.
To avoid running dry from evaporation I suggest getting your water level where you want it (few inches above pump) and mark the glass with a label or sharpie. Then make a second mark about an inch or wherever you feel comfortable to where your pump is still fully under water. Either everyday check this marking and add fresh water to reach the top mark or wait until it hits the bottom mark and refill. They make things that do this automatically for you but that’s a future topic.

here’s a very basic sump. This one is
F22D8868-66C6-4820-995F-19BFDA22FD97.jpeg


My opinion in a nutshell. You will have to spend probably a little more than 100$ for a return as this is basically the heart of your tank as it is pumping all your filtration and promoting gas exchange. Here’s some links to in my opinion good return pumps.



Not saying those are perfect size for you but those two brands are pretty good bang for your buck on a budget. You could also look in the dry goods forum here and find some cheaper.
 
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Manda0597

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To explain in another way.

so your tank is going to have some sort of overflow or is going to have a drilled bulkhead that drains water into your sump. Let’s say just for numbers sake your drain drains 500 gallons per hour into the sump.

the first section on the sump when water drains into usually has a filter sock attached to catch any floaters from the display tank (floaters as in detritus and anything else floating)

the water then goes over a baffle into a second section which generally is used as an area for a skimmer and a spot for a reactor if you went down that road.

next is another set of baffles sometimes referred to as a bubble trap.
B098FDC2-8DF6-4BE8-AB31-31DBBB19653F.png
Then another area of open water where your return pump goes.

Now the fun part. Remember the 500 gallons that drains into the sump? Let’s say you get a pump rated at 500 GPH (gallons per hour). You will flood your floor if you think that it will push 500 GPH up some plumbing into the tank. There’s a thing called “head pressure”. Basically this means the pump is pushing against gravity with the water along with around bends in your plumbing which reduces the amount of water your pump will push. Usually you have to buy a higher rated pump and calculate how far the water will travel upward and look at the chart the pump usually comes with to see how much water it will push up a certain distance. Here’s the HEAD chart for Ecotech pumps
A9EEDB62-482E-44FF-AB00-A99861163450.png

To overcome head pressure you can do two things, one have a gate valve NOT a ball valve on your drain into the sump and adjust the amount of water flowing into your sump to where your pump keeps a constant level of water in its chamber OR you can buy a pumps more than 500 GPH and use a valve to reduce the amount of water it pushes (AC pump only). If you get a DC pump they have a controller where you can adjust the amount of flow with some sort of controller they provide.

Now let’s say you run your pump full blast and it’s pushing too much water into your tank to what drains. As stated aboveyou don’t want to run your pump dry so in this case you’re pumping to much water to fast and it’s sucking air along with some water. One you’re eventually going to ruin the pump and two it’ll be load AF and put a bunch of air bubbles in the tank. Another way to run dry is evaporation. Throughout the day your tank will evaporate and your sump will continue to push water into it, but lowers the level of water in the return pump area. Once too much evaporates the return area becomes to low and you’re pumping are and exposing the pump and running “dry”.
To avoid running dry from evaporation I suggest getting your water level where you want it (few inches above pump) and mark the glass with a label or sharpie. Then make a second mark about an inch or wherever you feel comfortable to where your pump is still fully under water. Either everyday check this marking and add fresh water to reach the top mark or wait until it hits the bottom mark and refill. They make things that do this automatically for you but that’s a future topic.

here’s a very basic sump. This one is
F22D8868-66C6-4820-995F-19BFDA22FD97.jpeg


My opinion in a nutshell. You will have to spend probably a little more than 100$ for a return as this is basically the heart of your tank as it is pumping all your filtration and promoting gas exchange. Here’s some links to in my opinion good return pumps.



Not saying those are perfect size for you but those two brands are pretty good bang for your buck on a budget. You could also look in the dry goods forum here and find some cheaper.
Thank you so much! That was extremely helpful! i was looking at the Sicce Syncra. I think I will use the pump I am getting with the set up for now and save my money to get a better return pump than my current budget. The pump that is on it works as his tank is currently running and I wont have livestock for a good two moths so if it craps out I wont be killing anything or have to worry about water parameters and by the time I am ready for livestock I'll be ready for a new return pump. Thank you so much for taking the time out to assist me!!
 

Cwentz758

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Some pros and cons

AC pumps pros
Usually cheaper
Many say they outlast DC pumps
Since they’re cheaper you can save for 2 pumps to have a backup in case of one failing.

cons
Usually louder than DC pumps
Head pressure is more of a struggle for AC
Not battery backup capable
Not able to control with a controller

DC pumps pros
Quieter
Controllable with provided controller
Most have a battery backup option or easy way of DIY battery backup.
does a little better with head pressure

DC cons
More expensive
Some say they only last a few years

Obviously there is others but I can’t think of them currently lol
 

Cwentz758

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I guess now that I’m more in the hobby I’m realizing things now.
Save and spend the extra money now VS going cheaper just to upgrade later.

I did this so many times with lights. I spent 100s on cheap lights then got decent ones I’ll keep for a long while when I coulda have just got the good ones off the bat. Same with the return pump.

Again buying off the dry goods section you can find great deals and-most everyone on this forum will bend over backwards to help you.
 

sp1187

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If it’s one of the most important pieces of hardware, why are you looking to buy cheap? If the current one is working, save your money and buy quality, like a SICCE Syncra 6.0.
Or don’t.
 

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