Supplementing T5 with Metal halide for shimmer?

Bpb

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At the end of the day you’re making the right decision with the t5’s alone. For every lighting tech, there is a specific solution to overcome its disadvantages. It’s just about how far we are willing to go for it. Some people have the means to go to extreme lengths both financially and creatively through application, others have limitations. Ultimately It is my opinion t5 lighting has the easiest shortcomings to get over among the 3. Not to turn this into a lighting tech contest. I just think anything you do to create shimmer among even 6 t5ho bulbs will be minuscule at best and potentially harmful
 
AS

Tamberav

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Doubt you have too much par. I run 6 bulb ATI and my tank is only 16 inches deep and everything is happy from acros to more light sensitive LPS.

I have a led bar for pop in the evening but it adds no shimmer. Simply can not overpower the T5 but that’s not why I bought it.
 

Tcook

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The “kessil shimmer” would be very overpowered by the T5s and you would not see it, even with AL hybrid fixtures that run 4 T5 bulbs really mute the shimmer, with 6-8 bulbs there would be no benefit visually

I second this. I was running 4 Kessil A360's over my 120. I added 2 T5 bulbs and the shimmer was completely wiped out.
 

MartinM

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The shimmer between the Mh and Kessils are not even close to the same look. If you want the MH shimmer, then look at some 150w Halides. If you like the Kessil, then fine. Some people cannot stand the Kessil shimmer when coming from MH - one of the main complaints for years.

Too much PAR from MH and T5 is not really a thing like it is for LED. You probably don't need it, but it also does not burn or kill corals.
^ this, as someone who’s been using MH for 20 years.

Also, 600 par at the surface is sort of irrelevant unless you have corals literally *at* the surface, any anything from the intertidal/shallow water zone is going to be able to handle that just fine.
 
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Harold999

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The shimmer between the Mh and Kessils are not even close to the same look.
Depends on the size of the reflector above the halide. The smaller, the closer it gets to Kessil shimmer. There are (small) halid fixtures which looks dang close to Kessil shimmerwise.
 
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A. grandis

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This story that people say Kessil is here to substitute halides is a great joke! Most of the guys who know better and say that, which is absolutely not true, is trying to remove halides from the market to promote their sponsors, LED companies! They work hard for that and some times they believe in their own lies! Those companies are since the beginning trying to put halides down in the market saying LEDs are more efficient and so on... Too bad the halide manufacturers gave easy to them!!!!!!!!!!! There is absolutely NO LED ever in existence that would SUBSTITUTE halides, nor be actually better than halides in so many ways! Period! Either aesthetically or in actual light qualities provided to the corals, halides beat anything to the ground! Man, every minute that my life goes by that truth is reinforced in my life! Spectrum is the most important aspect of light we need for our corals. The halides are so great in producing AND distributing that right spectrum that we can compare the results with the actual sunlight. Spectrum is NOT PAR only!!! I'm talking about the spectrum of any halide bulb being from 65K to 20K, they all will have the range between REAL UV to IR. Second is intensity, which halides can give in the right amount with the right application! Strong intensity in the most safe way you can, like the sun too! As jda said... the Emerson effect is one of the keys we have now to understand that principal related to photosynthesis. I believe there is so much more we don't know to prove why halides are the king of lights, but the facts and results should be enough for decades to come. I can't thank jda enough for bringing Emerson Effect to the table!

T5s are still the most easy way to light our reefs and works like a charm over relatively shallow systems up to 24" tall. You can cover the whole surface area of the reef with the right T5s and not even worry about anything! No LED will substitute T5s! They can try to mimic, but you will see the huge difference in the long run, period! Halides and T5 combos are the very best IMO. But halides are always the primary source and the T5s are supplemental, logically.

I love when jda comes to write here! There are only few guys who can tell the truth of the matter! This new generation of sponsorship and Youtube channel is most of the time disgusting to say the least with artificial and superfluous junk for sale and promotion. Oh man...

My recommendation here goes to keep the T5 covering the whole surface area of the tank if it's equal or less than 24" tall. If you want to have the AMAZING shimmer from halides, you should get a halide system and put some T5s on either side, if you want. Giesemann Spectra is the best fixture you can order today to achieve that result! You need to order directly form Giesemann because BRS removed all their halide gear from their web site. I actually called them when they decided to remove the halides and they told me they were not selling halides and there was no shelf space available (???). LOL! I told them how Hamilton and ReefBrite were both selling all their halide gear to the point they actually had to produce almost the entire inventory to keep up with their sales. I also told them that public aquariums were ditching their LEDs and going back to halides because of unpublished research proving superior qualities, specially in regards to spectrum. I even recommended BRS to at least try to display the halide gear and ship from manufacturers, if the problem was shelf space. I asked if the reason was to promote LEDs for easy profit and they denied, of course. By the way, that day I wanted to talk directly to Ryan, but the guy on the phone said he has no direct line. Poor Ryan... Sorry, hard to believe!!!!!!!! To me it's a marketing strategy to sell LEDs and have their great upgrades every year... Why am I writing all this here? Just to vent and teach the newbies that come to this forum and see only LED threads as it would be the best thing... They all work and have their own way to be applied . Results won't lie, though! You can most times go much cheaper with halides and have the amazing unbeatable results!

Here is that video jda was talking about:
 
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Harold999

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Don't underestimate the spectrum of a Kessil though, it even exceeds Ati T5 in certain area's.
(The white line is Ati T5, screenshot is taken from BRSTV led showdown).

Screenshot_20210923-081000_YouTube.jpg
 

clownfish81

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Any difference in shimmer effect from LED vs metal halides?
I would supplement with LEDs. Metal halides get really hot and it might be hard to get replacement bulbs for them and the bulbs are expensive too.
 
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piranhaman00

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This story that people say Kessil is here to substitute halides is a great joke! Most of the guys who know better and say that, which is absolutely not true, is trying to remove halides from the market to promote their sponsors, LED companies! They work hard for that and some times they believe in their own lies! Those companies are since the beginning trying to put halides down in the market saying LEDs are more efficient and so on... Too bad the halide manufacturers gave easy to them!!!!!!!!!!! There is absolutely NO LED ever in existence that would SUBSTITUTE halides, nor be actually better than halides in so many ways! Period! Either aesthetically or in actual light qualities provided to the corals, halides beat anything to the ground! Man, every minute that my life goes by that truth is reinforced in my life! Spectrum is the most important aspect of light we need for our corals. The halides are so great in producing AND distributing that right spectrum that we can compare the results with the actual sunlight. Spectrum is NOT PAR only!!! I'm talking about the spectrum of any halide bulb being from 65K to 20K, they all will have the range between REAL UV to IR. Second is intensity, which halides can give in the right amount with the right application! Strong intensity in the most safe way you can, like the sun too! As jda said... the Emerson effect is one of the keys we have now to understand that principal related to photosynthesis. I believe there is so much more we don't know to prove why halides are the king of lights, but the facts and results should be enough for decades to come. I can't thank jda enough for bringing Emerson Effect to the table!

T5s are still the most easy way to light our reefs and works like a charm over relatively shallow systems up to 24" tall. You can cover the whole surface area of the reef with the right T5s and not even worry about anything! No LED will substitute T5s! They can try to mimic, but you will see the huge difference in the long run, period! Halides and T5 combos are the very best IMO. But halides are always the primary source and the T5s are supplemental, logically.

I love when jda comes to write here! There are only few guys who can tell the truth of the matter! This new generation of sponsorship and Youtube channel is most of the time disgusting to say the least with artificial and superfluous junk for sale and promotion. Oh man...

My recommendation here goes to keep the T5 covering the whole surface area of the tank if it's equal or less than 24" tall. If you want to have the AMAZING shimmer from halides, you should get a halide system and put some T5s on either side, if you want. Giesemann Spectra is the best fixture you can order today to achieve that result! You need to order directly form Giesemann because BRS removed all their halide gear from their web site. I actually called them when they decided to remove the halides and they told me they were not selling halides and there was no shelf space available (???). LOL! I told them how Hamilton and ReefBrite were both selling all their halide gear to the point they actually had to produce almost the entire inventory to keep up with their sales. I also told them that public aquariums were ditching their LEDs and going back to halides because of unpublished research proving superior qualities, specially in regards to spectrum. I even recommended BRS to at least try to display the halide gear and ship from manufacturers, if the problem was shelf space. I asked if the reason was to promote LEDs for easy profit and they denied, of course. By the way, that day I wanted to talk directly to Ryan, but the guy on the phone said he has no direct line. Poor Ryan... Sorry, hard to believe!!!!!!!! To me it's a marketing strategy to sell LEDs and have their great upgrades every year... Why am I writing all this here? Just to vent and teach the newbies that come to this forum and see only LED threads as it would be the best thing... They all work and have their own way to be applied . Results won't lie, though! You can most times go much cheaper with halides and have the amazing unbeatable results!

Here is that video jda was talking about:

Thanks guys. I’ve been running ATI T5’s for a few months and I’m never going back to LED’s!

I don’t need any supplementation anymore. :)

Leds are definitely a gimmick in a sense, you can see it with people buying the new models every year. I have never had to change my t5s haha stay the same every year.

Some people like the new toys though, so let those people continue to keep the hobby funded.

Skimmers are also like leds, so many useless gadgets attached.
 
Orphek OR3 reef aquarium LED lighting

Bpb

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Leds are definitely a gimmick in a sense, you can see it with people buying the new models every year.

On the one had I’d say it’s a shame people feel pressured to do that. Previous model leds still work. They don’t stop working just because a new generation comes out.

On the other hand I think more hobbyists than not are actually led/gadget hobbyists, rather than reef tank hobbyists. A glass box is merely a foundation for a never ending urge to quench the thirst for technology.
 

ingchr1

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Don't underestimate the spectrum of a Kessil though, it even exceeds Ati T5 in certain area's.
(The white line is Ati T5, screenshot is taken from BRSTV led showdown).

Screenshot_20210923-081000_YouTube.jpg
Can you provide more detail on this comparison? Which ATI bulb or bulbs are these? Where it exceeds, in this specific comparison, does that equate to better coral health and tank visual appearance?
 
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